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To: kerryusama04; adiaireton8; jo kus
There is only one Law of God.

There is no law against love, brother!
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such there is no law. (Gal 3) and again:

13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love be servants of one another. 14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 15 But if you bite and devour one another take heed that you are not consumed by one another. (Gal 3)
"Pray for the excommunicated person and attempt to persuade them to seek reconciliation with the Church." (Adiaireton8); "

Why can't you do what the Bible says?" (Kerryusama04)


1Ti 5:19 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses.

We do. The English word for priest is derived from the word being translated here as elder, presbyteroi. The statement is admonishing Timothy, the leader entrusted with authority to lead the community at Ephesus to not accept accusations against a presbyter without multiple witnesses. He also instructs Timothy how to govern this church, including making decisions about who will be ordained to the office of Presbytr, and further notes that the presbyters rule the church at Ephesus. (Note also that there are not 50 churches at Ephesus, just one, and it is subject to Apostolic authority and governed by a hierarchy established by the Apostles. Timothy is charged with leading this community against individual teachings which are inconsistent with the Apostolic faith.)

We also work to follow the Bible where it says:


"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. ("Matthew 18:15-20)
Here we see the Church as the proper authority to which individuals may appeal where differences arise.

Adiaireton8 is advocating a course of action, namely prayer for the reconciliation of the person who has been excommunicated. This is an act of love, correct? This is also entirely consistent with St. Paul's example after he directs the community at Corinth to excommunicate a son and his mother or stepmother for incest (1 Cor 5: 1,2), he nonetheless admonishes the church to act with charity toward these two individuals. (2 Cor 2:5-11)
1,354 posted on 10/25/2006 10:10:32 AM PDT by InterestedQuestioner (Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you and your household will be saved.)
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To: InterestedQuestioner; adiaireton8; jo kus
Surmising your thesis here:There is no law against love, brother!

Then 'splain this one for me:

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 2Th 2:8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

Here we see the Church as the proper authority to which individuals may appeal where differences arise.

Don't think I do not respect Apostolic authority or a church's authority. This is not the case. If it were, then how could I quote from their writings? The point is, if their writings are secondary to oral succession, then why even have the writings? If this is the case, then why do y'all quote these writings? What authority do you have to defend your Church. The debate for all Catholics should end with, "because they say so".

It is interesting that you post scriptures indicating that the laity have the ability and even the duty to interpret scripture and identify sin on their own. The question here is that what to do when the church is in sin or teaching errors.

Adiaireton8 is advocating a course of action, namely prayer for the reconciliation of the person who has been excommunicated. This is an act of love, correct? This is also entirely consistent with St. Paul's example after he directs the community at Corinth to excommunicate a son and his mother or stepmother for incest (1 Cor 5: 1,2), he nonetheless admonishes the church to act with charity toward these two individuals. (2 Cor 2:5-11)

1Co 5:5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

The result of the first controversy you post is that Paul decides to give the offender the death penalty since, because he cannot stop sinning, it is better for him to be dead and hope to be judged well at the resurrection. Does this, perhaps, give us an insight as to what the first Bishop of Rome would have done to these pedophile priests and their leaders who covered for them?

2Co 2:6 Sufficient for such a one is this punishment which was inflicted by the majority,

Again, the majority of the laity decided what was sin (interpreted scripture on their own) and took care of the matter. This does not say, "You should not have interpreted scripture on your own, you're busted when I get there". It says, "good job for taking care of business".

1,455 posted on 10/25/2006 4:47:30 PM PDT by kerryusama04 (Isa 8:20, Eze 22:26)
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