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To: Uncle Chip
How was Peter ordaining anybody 25 years after his death?

First of all, it appears to me that you are not a sympathetic investigator. You appear to have an axe to grind. A person can call into question every piece of evidence, if you want not to believe something. But instead of assuming that these fathers are pulling these things out of thin air, or basing them on mere rumours, try giving them the benefit of the doubt. If you want to be a skeptic, then go the whole way and doubt the veracity of the Scriptures.

Regarding Peter's ordination of Clement, there is absolutely no contradiction, and you would know this if you knew more about the Catholic Church. For example, my home parish is the local cathedral, i.e. the seat of the archbishop. But there is another bishop there in residence. There are two bishops here at the same time. Similarly, Clement was ordained by Peter to the order of bishop, but Clement remained under the authority of Linus and Cletus until Cletus died, at which time Clement acquired the responsibility of the Roman see.

-A8

1,178 posted on 10/24/2006 9:51:02 AM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: adiaireton8; Uncle Chip

I think an important thing to consider is WHAT POSSIBLE REASON WOULD THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS HAVE HAD TO LIE ABOUT WHAT PETER WAS DOING? These men were writing just a few decades after the Crucifixion, the Gospels had not even been compiled or even necessarily written. Would they "lie" in anticipation of a controversy that would not even appear for another fifteen centuries?


1,179 posted on 10/24/2006 10:02:45 AM PDT by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: adiaireton8; All
A person can call into question every piece of evidence, if you want not to believe something.

HEHEHEHE .. why did this make me laugh coming from you? *smile*

Good Morning everyone!

1,183 posted on 10/24/2006 10:24:47 AM PDT by proud_2_B_texasgal
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To: adiaireton8
Here is what Jerome wrote about Peter. Tell me if you agree with it. Do you find any historical inaccuracies or questions in it?:

Simon Peter . . . after having been bishop of the church of Antioch and having preached to the Dispersion ---the believers in the circumcision, in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia --- pushed on to Rome in the second year of Claudius to overthrow Simon Magus, and held the sacerdotal chair there for twenty-five years until the last, that is the fourteenth year of Nero.

Does the Magisterium of the RCC stand by this statement or was Jerome mistaken, not just once but on many points?

BTW ---- You were the one who told me to read the "Fathers" and so I'm doing it. What you might not like is that I am reading the writings of the "Fathers" with the same critical mind that you are reading the Scriptures, right?

1,184 posted on 10/24/2006 10:38:59 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: adiaireton8

A person can call into question every piece of evidence, if you want not to believe something.
= = = =

INDEED!

ESPECIALLY on many threads hereon . . . re God's Anointing and Spiritual Gifts and their operation in the current era.


1,208 posted on 10/24/2006 1:04:48 PM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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