Replies

Gnosticism is not a new topic. I'm 59 years old. By God's grace? mercy? . . . something, He blessed me with a markedly above average IQ. I have enjoyed learning and studying virtually all my life.

I do not believe in Gnosticism. I have never believed in Gnosticism. I will not ever believe in Gnosticism.

My assertions on this thread have nothing to do with Gnosticism. Constructions on reality to the contrary will have to bear their own responsibility for wholesale distorting of what I write and what I believe.

I do not accept that any leader in Rome was chosen of God to be pre-eminent over all Christendom. I will never accept historical revisionism that purports to support that.

To me, it is not Biblical. It will never be seen by me as Biblical.

I see no rebellion against Godly appointed, ordained or anointed leadership in good honorable Biblical Protestant groups SEEKING GOD AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS FIRST AND FOREMOST.

Actually, if there's rebellion, it's against obeying Christ in hearing His voice; following His Voice/Spirit; obeying Him and The Father and Spirit over any other authority of any kind.

Yes, God sets in place spiritual authority and we are right to submit to them. We are also exhorted to submit one to another.

Spiritual authority which takes unto itself undue pride, undue station, undue position, undue "lording it over" other believers is in rebellion against God.

Christ's model was quite the opposite. He called us to His model--not the model of human organizations throughout history.

The history of the early church is that Rome won many political and armed battles to presume for itself a lording it over all Christendom. I consider that a very UnBiblical and UNChristlike turn of events that has plagued Christendom for centuries.

Extrapolating Christ's statement to Peter comparing his weakness to the faith Christ would build his church on is not the remotest adequate extrapolation or inference to build a huge edifice of man's organizaion upon and pretend it's God's will.

These are historical facts in my construction on reality. No amount of badgering; no amount of bad historical revisionism; no amount of misconstruing Scripture; no amount of elaborate extrapolations and inferences based on one questionable reading of one phrase in the whole of Scripture; no mile high pile of traditions or customs or ecleastical pontifications and pomp and circumstance will ever . . . EVER . . . supplant

1. historical fact.
2. GOD AND GOD ALONE AS WORTHY ALL PRAISE AND SUBMISSION

3. the very Biblical egalitarianism of The Cross and the priesthood of all believers . . .
4. the Scriptural command to avoid calling earthly mortals Father etc. in the lofty ecleastical sense . . .

5. the need to follow leadership which is anointed and to quit following it when the anointing lifts--at least to quit giving such leadership unqualified submission and support when the anointing leaves.

6. prayerful discernment testing the spirit and attitude that any and all believers and others around me operate in as well as I endeavor to check myself on such matters routinely, ongoingly.

= = = = = = = =

Of course God doesn't NEED anything from us, per se. He chose to create us for intimate fellowship.

But certainly He is well able to remove anointing and even individuals from positions and even from organizations as well as from this life.

Sometimes, God CHOOSES to involve flawed humans in such matters. I have no need to argue with Him. HE DOES HAPPEN TO BE GOD ALMIGHTY.

There was a pastoral couple in the AofG church a block from my BA university. The short story is that they had a hugely important mission field at their door step and instead abused and dismissed college students very unwarrantely and unBiblically. After a needless suicide after such dismissiveness, I was furious.

I found Holy Spirit rising up within me most fiercely at such travesties in the name of God. I overheard myself praying that the couple would be changed; moved away OR taken out of this life within a year. In less than a year, they were moved and then both graduated from this life. I expect to see them in Heaven.

But their anointing had long gone--particularly in that position and role. They were at best a sbumbling block to what God wanted to do in that area. Too truly, they were significantly worse than a mere stumbling block.

That's not the only such phenomena I've been compelled to be a part of. I expect to see far more such in coming months and years. There will be many events like Annanias and his wife.

GOD IS NOT TO BE MOCKED. HIS WAYS ARE TO BE RESPECTED AND SUBMITTED TO. HIS WAYS ARE BEYOND FINDING OUT.

THEY ARE CERTAINLY BEYOND PACKAGING INTO ANY . . . AS IN

ANY

MAN'S ORGANIZATION. THAT WAS TRUE OF PRIOR TO NOAH. IT WAS TRUE OF NOAH'S ERA. IT WAS TRUE OF EVEN MOSES' ERA--GOD WAS CONSTANTLY KNOCKING THE SIDES OUT OF BOXES HE HIMSELF HAD ORDAINED. IT WAS CERTAINLY TRUE IN DAVID'S ERA AND LATER.

Man's organizations quickly descend into RELIGION instead of intimate dialogue and RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.

= = = =

Again, there is not a shred of Gnosticism in my theology nor in my relationship with God nor in my relationship with other Christians. Failing to see that at some point is not my problem. I do not enjoy being repeatedly beat over the head with a falsehood.