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To: Quix
No. The "test" is not entirely subjective. It is observational and experiential.

'Experiential' is entirely subjective. And the interpretation of what is observational is also entirely subjective. (Notice that you are once again unhelpfully vague; you don't show how the test can be simultaneously observational and objective.)

And, as to demons . . . Christ's standard remains . . . Do the individuals, sources involved confess that Jesus came in the flesh etc. and Jesus as Their Lord, and humans as their Savior, or not?

The assumption underlying your 'miracle' test is that anyone through whom the Holy Spirit acts to perform miracles is free from serious theological error. But that is not a safe assumption. (And having grown up Pentecostal, I can assure you that it is a false assumption.)

Counterfeit miracles are genearlly flavored, toned, colored, tainted with their source . . . particularly after closer examination and reflection by discerning folks but usually by most anyone with any horse sense.

So the test to determine whether someone is discerning is to see whether they have the anointing; and one determines whether they have the anointing by using the 'miracle' test; and in order to determine whether they pass the 'miracle' test, one has to have discernment. One big circle again.

Holy Spirit can cause a burning within that I'm sure LDS folks would assert is the same. They are good at including everything including the kitchen sink as covered and included in their scheme of things. It's not the same, in my book.

So, how should we determine whether you or the Mormons are right? The 'burning in the bosom' test? Or something objective?

I think Christ said it best: MY SHEEP KNOW MY VOICE.

So, how do you know that the voice you are hearing is Christ's, and not that of another?

I think it's akin to a mother and child knowing one another's voice. I wonder how many would call that subjective.

I would, because it is subjective. But if the child were kidnapped as a newborn infant, and grew up in the house of its female kidnapper, the voice it recognizes would not be that of its mother. So, recognizing a voice is not enough to guarantee that you are in the truth, especially since 20,000+ sects claim to be following His voice, while all disagreeing with each other. They cannot be hearing His voice if they are contradicting each other.

"Entirely subjective" is simply false.

How so? In other words, how are your tests objective?

Sounds to me like folks not accustomed to hearing His Voice and acting on it might do well to check up on their relationship with Him. He didn't put qualifiers in that sentence.

Ad hominems are fallacies.

I suspect that anyone who seriously wants to find GOD'S ANSWER on this issue . . . and who SEEKS HIM FIRST AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS . . . AND who asks HIM to show them His truth . . . will likely find in the next 18 or so months that He has.

Do you think all the millions of Mormons are lying when they say that they are seeking God and concluding that God wants them to be Mormons???

-A8

1,054 posted on 10/23/2006 2:10:19 PM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: adiaireton8

Have a blessed week.

I don't think I have any further explanation to offer that has any chance of being that helpful.

Perhaps others can do better than I.


1,061 posted on 10/23/2006 2:18:03 PM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: adiaireton8
Do you think all the millions of Mormons are lying when they say that they are seeking God and concluding that God wants them to be Mormons???

Let's keep priority first with our Lord. If a Mormon denies the Son, then the Father is not in him. Read 1John 2 (later half of the chapter is pertinent).

I've worked with many Mormons and they frequently have impecable morality. But morality is not to be confused with salvation. KOSMOS, or the World, is a system of making order out of chaos. There are many successful organizers in the world who have learned the social skills well prior to more technical skill and are very productive in society. Morality simply abides by legalism with respect of the will, marriage, family, and governments of others. Those are all divinely established institutions for believer and unbeliever alike. One can be very well meaning, moral, productive, yet not have a relationship with God. They might also have experienced supernatural phenomenon, that doesn't mean they have a spirit filled life with the Living God.

The Mormons I've met are very good people wrt human standards of morality, and where they practice false doctrine, I don't think they intend to deceive, so I wouldn't describe them as liars, but I don't find the same spirit filled life from the Holy Spirit in them. And how do I discern this? Again by the Holy Spirit, by faith, by continuous study of doctrine (advanced faith) and having that faith continually running through my thought processes as I continue to walk in Him.

Note that in these Scriptures incredibly valuable insight is available regarding the different persons of the Trinity, again one God, revealed in three different persons. That revelation provides far more than simply relating a few thoughts. It's an genius method of instruction and providing a living relationship between God and man all consistent with His plan and method of having relationship with us.

1,077 posted on 10/23/2006 2:47:48 PM PDT by Cvengr
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