Posted on 10/21/2006 4:52:03 AM PDT by NYer
Thank you diego...excellent research that will make a great study.
I didn't think I stuttered in the above. FOLKS WHO LIVE AND WALK AS THE ABOVE ARE IN ALL THE REMOTELY BIBLICAL CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATIONS. I've met a number of Roman Believers who fit such criteria. But most believer in most to virtually all Christian organizations DO NOT MEET SUCH CRITERIA BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT WILLING TO PAY THE PRICE in the way they live. And, too often, that has included me.
So who are the discerning? You, I suppose?
It depends on a number of issues.
1. What is God doing in the situation.
2. How heavy was the anointing. In many situations, the anointing is so heavy, one would have to be dead to miss it's being lifted and gone. Even the unsaved immediately sense it.
3. How close to fitting the criteria above is the individual doing the sensing, perceiving AT THAT MOMENT IN THAT SITUATION? The very spiritually sensitive and VERY FULL OF HOLY SPIRIT can detect very subtle transitions and departures of Holy Spirit's anointing.
4. How distracted vs tuned in is the person doing the sensing, perceiving?
Out of the 20,000+ Protestant sects,
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh . . . The Roman organization is not a denomination but we are sects? Comes across as cheeky uncute. Hereafter, I'll feel little to no compunctions about referring to the Roman organization as a denomination or a sect.
you and your fellow [let me guess, Pentecostals] are the discerning ones? My point is that each sect thinks its own members are the discerning ones.
See above. I'm talking about spiritual realities--not spiritual assumptions and biases. I'm talking about WHAT GOD LITERALY DOES AND DOESN'T DO IN A GIVEN SITUATION AT A GIVEN TIME with given people . . . not stereotypic assumptions and biases and pontifications. I'M TALKING ABOUT WHAT GOD DISCERNABLY, DETECTABLY DOES . . . reality--sometimes tangible reality.
Who determines who are the "discerning"? Second-order discerners?
I'm not talking AT ALL ABOUT LABELING FOLKS AS DISCERNERS OR NONDISCERNERS. I'm talking about INDIVIDUALS IN ALL CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATIONS, INCLUDING THE ROMAN DENOMINATION, DOING EFFECTIVE DISCERNING whether one is a "lowly" toilet cleaner worker or a 'high ranking' religionist. And in my experience, it's usually the so called 'lowly' who discern best.
You see how this leads either to an infinite regress, a viscious circle, or an arbitrarily determined starting point (e.g. me and all those who think just like me; *we're* the discerning ones).
UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, NO!!!!! I DON'T SEE THAT, AT ALL! The starting point is not arbitrary. The starting point is Scriptural, reality based, operationally defined; literal reality based; often overtly clear; common phenomena in all denominations of any serious Biblical foundation at all.
That is why I said that the gnostic position you advance
EXCUSE ME! I advance no gnostic position. It MAY be construed as that by folks who are, from my perspective, using words in interesting ways from rubber dictionaries. But that's not my reality.
It's interesting that it's not OK to describe some folks' orientations, organizations hereon as perceived by the writer IF that differs from how the individual claims is reality. But the shoe is not on the other foot. The same courtesy is not extended. Smells like a double standard, to me. And it stinks.
I'm talking about HOLY SPIRIT REALITY VERY IN TOUCH WITH, IMPARTED TO; INDWELLING MAN; WITH TANGIBLE REALITY; WITH HUMAN AGENTS.
removes the possibility of determining objectively who has the anointing. Because it is entirely subjective,
HOGWASH. Holy Spirit is the most objective participant observer there is. He is Truth, Author of Truth. Tuning n to HIS TRUTH is not at all undoable. Primarily one has to be obedient and live a largely obedient, broken and contrite spirited, Spirit-Filled life as well as one can, by God's Grace, manage.
Assuming one meets the criteria for Holy Spirit to operate in one's life to that degree, such discernment is fairly automatic, instant, quite detectable, quite clear. In some subtle situations, a beginner might misconstrue but in maybe even a majority of situations, a vast majority of folks meeting the criteria will instantly get the message in their spirits, their inner person, via The Spirit's still small voice or a feeling, an impression that is characteristic of Holy Spirit and unmistakable.
And, I believe in the coming months and years, God will be doing such grand, very overt things . . . it will be obvious to the man on the street.
And the evil forces have come raging onto the world stage in these end times . . . and will be doing more so . . . such that when God's Anointing leaves, the cold, chilling, black, ugly, darkness will overtly descend over the situation in many, many cases.
your position reduces to "everybody has the anointing", which means in practice, that nobody has the anointing.
NOT MY POSITION. NOT MY REALITY. NOT REMOTELY ACCURATE.
Respecting one another's constructions on reality flows both ways, BTW.
Well done.
No, the rock upon which He built was the faith within Peter. The same faith of Christ and believers today. Without it, no matter how obedient to the Church, nor how studied one becomes, it will still count for lacking in righteousness in final judgment.
Meanwhile, through faith in Christ we all have the ability to resist temptation.
Very well put.
I case you didn't know, if you watch the video of the New Testament, you will clearly see our Lord calling Peter a "little rock" and then pointing at a boulder and saying that He would build His Church on that rock. This passage is really an insult of Peter you see. As is the passage where Peter is told to tend His sheep, another insult because Christ thought Peter incapable of doing anything other than tending to livestock.
But as I said, it's all right there in the video, I'm sure Jack Chick sells it, you might also order a video on how to hold a bunch of venomous snakes at the same time.
Many modern folks have seen The Risen Lord as Paul did.
And, PERHAPS some have walked, do walk in such an anointing. I'm still pondering that issue. I certainly don't think that everyone who places "Apostle" on their business card is an Apostle. I think the word has been exceedingly watered down in the modern era.
No because God appointed us one, and it was Christ.
= = = =
Sounds pretty Biblical, to me.
The rest of the post I'm responding to came across as pretty deliberately insulting.
Read up the thread and see what it was in response to. To say that God "appointed" Christ invalidates the Trinity.
everything
= = = =
Guess I missed the all inclusive words on the part of those not of the Roman sect.
Though, now that it's mentioned . . . I do recall a number of the Roman sect using such all inclusive words. Not sure what that means.
It is about Jesus Christ.
And ONLY Peter
= = = =
Brazen extrapolations and inferences are very hazardous things to build even minor doctrine on.
Christ said some things ONLY to John the Beloved. I wonder what layers of extrapolated, inferred doctrines we could build on such ONLY statements.
Yes, indeed. Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit.
Of course, many folks have covered over their spirits with so much focus on fleshly concerns of the world, it's a wonder if they've had so much as a post card from their spirits in years, decades.
Which Jesus? The Jesus of the Mormons? The Jesus of the Muslims? The Jesus of the Unitarians?
-A8
I have not referred to ANY Protestant denomination as a "sect" and I find it insulting that a member of any denomination that was founded sometime after the early 16th Century would call the Catholic Church a sect.
Go to Rome and see for yourself, the evidence is clearly there. Whether you accept the Papacy or not, whether you accept that Peter was in Rome or not, it is impossible to argue that Christianity came to Rome and the middle of the First Century and has been there ever since.
As is probably well known . . . the meanings of the different words in the original is not reflected in the quote.
And, our two sides, are highly unlikely to come to agreement of the meaning of that verse, this side of Heaven, short of Holy Spirit's miraculous and convincing declaration to all and sundry.
-A8
No. That sort of phrasing is in Scripture in a place or two. Nothing can invalidate The Trinity.
Have been to Rome. Spent days there. Enjoyed the Vatican and Tivoli gardens.
I find the contentions mentioned exceedingly flawed.
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