I learned long ago on FR to leave the heretics to their delusions. Pride prevents them from opening their eyes. "Pray, hope, and don't worry"--Saint Pio
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Posted on 10/21/2006 4:52:03 AM PDT by NYer
UH OH.... they're calling you a snake handler. You're really getting in trouble with the Romans now!
But don't forget that the Gospel that Paul preached came from the Resurrected and Ascended Jesus Christ. He received it directly and personally on the road to Damascus and he spent many years with the Lord before he began his ministry.
UT oh, you are calling us Christians "Romans" when all of us are Americans. In any event, can't snake handing bn viewed as a compliment? It is, after all, a Biblical referent
| I learned long ago on FR to leave the heretics to their delusions. Pride prevents them from opening their eyes. "Pray, hope, and don't worry"--Saint Pio
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-A8
"UH OH.... they're calling you a snake handler. You're really getting in trouble with the Romans now!"
----- I'll take that as a warning to stay out of the garden today.
It doesn't really matter who formed the compilation of books in Scripture, in that not only in their formation, but in their reading and interretation, the Holy Spirit is still at work today as before in the heart of each believer, even in our Prayers to the Father, interceding with inexpressible groanings to the Father presenting our righteousness to Him in a fashion acceptable to Him, in areas of which we know nothing.
Consider the anthropology of man, in body, soul, and spirit. So much of our worldly perspective of Scripture is identifying an anthology of some 66 books in one binding as a Holy Document, yet what is more important is that the Word of God, or LOGOS, merely provides our thinking, our soul, with some of the same language used to express His thinking, so that the Holy Spirit might be free to make that soulish thinking effective in the growth and setting apart of not only our thinking, our soul, but also in our spirit.
It has been said there are three methods of perception. The senses, as in the body; Rationalism, as in logic/reason, or our soulish thinking; and spiritual perception.
Too often in a worldly sense, i.e. an attempt to bring order out of chaos, we attempt to limit Scripture to only a series of rationalistic expressions, yet His Word is much more than this. The Holy Spirit is able to take our thinking which is being transformed by His Word and further change our thinking, then our spirit, and manifest in our heart and what comes out of man.
In a sense, the only thing that amounts to (divine) good from man is based upon the activity of the Holy Spirit in us. Likewise, even if presented with a distorted form of the Scripture, if we still understand His meaning from that Scripture, He is still free to sanctify us.
You know very well that Mark 16:9-20 is disputed. Why you Romans even resort to quoting it is beyond me.
And you need to not forget that before he had his conversion on the road to Damascus,(he didn't receive the Gospel there) he was on that road to jail and have killed more Christian converts! Don't forget the Apostles were originally very wary of him because of his previous reputation and habits.
They had already been converting Christians to the Church which he was imprisioning.
Why are here preaching at us about the Gospel? Wasn't it you who wouldn't even tell me if you believed that Jesus is God?
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." -- 2 Timothy 2:15
No king but Christ.
" ... it is clear that Peter is the most important of the Apostles."
It is? And what about Paul, who brought Christianity to the gentiles?
"Paul was an evangelist and preacher, whereas Peter was an authority and a leader."
And what's the difference?
First off, the Roman Catholic Church is one of 22 churches that make up the One Holy Catholic Church. Although it is not widely known in our Western world, the Catholic Church is actually a communion of Churches. According to the Constitution on the Church of the Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, the Catholic Church is understood to be "a corporate body of Churches," united with the Pope of Rome, who serves as the guardian of unity (LG, no. 23). At present there are 22 Churches that comprise the Catholic Church. The new Code of Canon Law, promulgated by Pope John Paul II, uses the phrase "autonomous ritual Churches" to describe these various Churches (canon 112). Each Church has its own hierarchy, spirituality, and theological perspective. Because of the particularities of history, there is only one Western Catholic Church, while there are 22 Eastern Catholic Churches. The Western Church, known officially as the Latin Church, is the largest of the Catholic Churches. It is immediately subject to the Roman Pontiff as Patriarch of the West. The Eastern Catholic Churches are each led by a Patriarch, Major Archbishop, or Metropolitan, who governs their Church together with a synod of bishops. Through the Congregation for Oriental Churches, the Roman Pontiff works to assure the health and well-being of the Eastern Catholic Churches.
According to Scripture, Christ wanted us to be one (John 17:22-23). We are all as a Church to be of one mind and to think the same (Philippians 2:2; Romans 15:5). There is only to be one "faith" (Ephesians 4:3-6), not many. For the Church is Christ's Body and Christ only had one Body, not many. Also, since the Church is Christ's Bride (Ephesians 5:29), can Christ be married to more than one wife (essentially a spiritual form of the the sin of polygamy)? No, Christ can only have one wife (i.e., one Church, not many).
I don't see how you can say that the Reformers separated from Rome out of ego. It was not personal vanity that led Luther, Calvin, Zwlingli, Hus, and others, except save in the case of the Anglicans. Yes, these men had strong personalities, but if they did not sincerely believe in the Protestant solas, they would have been successful Catholic priests and bishops. Yet their zeal was for the Gospel of Christ, despite their laws.
Ego = personal disagreement.
"Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect." - 1 Corinthians 1:10-17
St. Paul begs the early Christians to be unified in mind and in what they say. There can only be one "true" Christian Church. How can the Holy Spirit guide the Catholic Church, the Lutheran Church, the Presbyterian Church, the Baptist Church, etc. if all of those denominations have doctrines and beliefs differing from each other? There is only one interpretation of the Bible. Otherwise, people can and have "read" literally anything into It.
I will state that the doctrine of justification by faith alone was corrupted from Augustine's day, for example.
In James 2:17,26 - James clearly teaches that faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. Works are a cause, not just an effect, of our justification because good works achieve and increase our justification before God. Scripture never says anything about “saving faith.” Can you show me from the Scriptures that “works” qualify the “faith” into saving faith? Scriptures teach that justification is achieved only when “faith and works” act together. Scripture puts no qualifier on faith. Scripture also never says that faith “leads to works.” Faith is faith and works are works (James 2:18). They are distinct (mind and action), and yet must act together in order to receive God’s unmerited gift of justification.
Furthermore, the reliance on Tradition as a source coequal with Scripture was erroneous. Tradition is valuable, but it cannot replace the supremacy of Scripture.
The Bible Itself states that there are "oral" teachings and traditions that are to be carried on to the present-day (2 Thessalonians 2:15; 1 Corinthians 11:2; 2 Timothy 2:2; Romans 10:17; 1 Peter 1:24-25). These teachings are what the Catholic Church considers "Sacred Apostolic Tradition." This type of "Tradition" never changes because it was passed down by the Apostles themselves. It is not the same as the man-made traditions condemned in Scripture. The man-made traditions condemned in Scripture were those of the Jewish Pharisees. In fact, as Christians, we are supposed to disassociate ourselves from persons who do not follow Apostolic Tradition (2 Thessalonians 3:6). If oral tradition is not to be followed, why did St. Paul state Christ said something that is not recorded in the Gospels (Acts 20:35)? St. Paul must have "heard" this saying, not read it from any Gospel or "Scripture," thereby, proving that some things Christ said were not recorded in the Gospels (John 21:25) and were passed on orally among His disciples instead, but were just as valid as anything written since St. Paul himself used one of these oral passages in one of his own epistles.
Show me where in Scripture it states that the Bible is the sole and only authority of Christianity.
You must have been talking to yourself.
LOL! Oh no, I wasn't!
Please see our exchange in the link below on the subject, "The Crucifix." Post #160, #162, #165, and #166.
"But Christ did not leave us with a book."
Kinda goes against John 1.
Why all the focus on "affiliation" rather Jesus?
" ... posting a statement of faith ..."
What does posting a statement of faith have to do with anything? Is that something you paste on your shirt to wear?
Perhaps you just overlooked these words of the Resurrected Jesus in Acts 9:15: "Go thy way, for he [Paul] is a chosen vessel unto me, to BEAR MY NAME BEFORE THE GENTILES, and Kings, and the children of Israel".
Paul had a special God-given mission to take the gospel to the Gentiles and the Romans were Gentiles.
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