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To: ninenot

"There is NO reason for the Vatican to rebut the SSPX's story on the turnaround publicly"

I disagree with that most strongly. If the SSPX is lying, and thereby leading people astray, the Vatican has an absolute, inescapable moral duty to let the truth be known.

"sometimes pushing too hard brings results worse than simply taking the attacks"

I find it hard to see a simple statement as "pushing too hard."

"The Vatican is not about to issue a newsletter of clarification, for your benefit or for mine."

How terrible it would be to believe that the Vatican allowed so momentous a lie to stand unchallenged. That would be worse than finding out with certainty that the bait-and-switch story is true.

"Were that the case, the SSPX SHOULD have long ago jumped back into the Church with the issuance of the Indult."

Well, no, because previous attempts to reconcile have been derailed by the insistance of modernists that the SSPX agree to celebrate, and more, to concelebrate, the N.O. Further, the Indult is more comparable to giving wolves permission to become vegetarians than anything else. Not really much of a remedy.

"in any case, they have what they consider to be doctrinal problems w/VatII."

I don't know that those are deal-breakers.

"As to B-16--you said exactly what the SSPX would like you to have said: 'he was a lefty theologian before VatII...'"

Who cares what anybody would *like* me to say? I said what I believe to be the truth.

"I can tell you from reading a good deal of his writings (since 1984) that he is NOT a "lefty" today"

I brought it up solely in response to your assertion that then-Cardinal Ratzinger would not have tried to sabotage the Tridentine.

"if anything, the wacko lefties are wringing their hands over everything he's said"

I certainly hope so. And I have hope that I will live to attend if not the Tridentine, at least a reverent and liturgically unexceptional N.O.


171 posted on 09/18/2006 6:19:16 PM PDT by dsc
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To: dsc

Apparently compared to you I live in Paradise. I can find at least 5 "straight-up" NO Masses without driving more than 20 miles 1 way, PLUS a Diocesan-authorized TridRite.

The Vatican rarely issues rebuttals to distortions in cases like that of the initial SSPX agreement. In contrast, the Vat often issues direct rebuttals to heresy. However, notice that when someone publishes a book which is questionable, the Vat generally conducts a lengthy correspondence with the author to attempt to correct the book. NONE of that correspondence is generally available.

My conclusion is that 'in a case of ongoing negotiations, we will not disclose specific disagreements nor specific conversations/writings.' I would guess offhand that the Vat wants to preserve a "good face" for ALL PARTIES when the negotiations conclude. Of course, negotiations w/SSPX never really broke down completely, albeit there were some llllllooooooonnnnnnnnggggggggg pauses.

Granted, this is an "un-American" way to proceed...but that's not all bad.

Remember that SSPX has not been declared to be "leading people astray." Only the Bishops and priests of SSPX are formally excommunicandi. Virtually all the laypeople are NOT excommunicated. It's interesting, too, that the situation is blatantly ambiguous.

As to the 'other doctrinal problems' being "dealbreakers": we shall see. I suspect that some of the SSPX muckety-mucks will MAKE them into dealbreakers if the Vat offers the Tridentine with no strings.

There is simply no good evidence that B-16/Ratzinger EVER tried to submarine the Old Rite or SSPX. Certainly, if he had grave reservations about some position of SSPX (e.g., 'religious freedom') he was bound to say so. But from all I can gather, principally from reading his written works, he is VERY concerned about the BuggerBugnini club's smashing of the altars (lit. and fig.)

He is also not likely to return the Church as a whole to the Old Rite; but I'd bet (if he lives long enough) that you WILL see a "reform of the reform" which brings back some elements of the OR, and likely more Latin. A LOT more Latin.

That's why the Establishment of Modernism hates his guts. Remember that his speech in Regensburg was not solely directed at the heresy of Mohamet.


172 posted on 09/19/2006 3:43:56 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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