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To: dsc; ninenot; sittnick; Tax-chick; bornacatholic
If we wish to claim to be Catholics, we ought to rely on the promises of Jesus Christ and not upon the malignant dishonesty and rebelliousness of the likes of Marcel and his ecclesiastical love slaves.

You really have drunk the SSPX Kool Aid if you think that SSPX is responsible for ANYTHING positive much less the availability of the Tridentine Mass in the parish churches of many dioceses. I was married in a Tridentine wedding Mass in Connecticut, courtesy of the late Archbishop John Whealon, two years before Marcel and his co-conspirators and adherent gulls were excommunicated and declared schismatic.

Bishop Ferrario of Honolulu is the only case I know of in which a diocesan ordinary claimed to excommunicate people for attending SSPX Masses. As anyone actually familiar with the case and who practices honesty can tell you, the reason for the excommunications was that the individuals he tried to excommunicate had outed him as a homosexual who kept a former altar boy stashed in San Francisco for his weekend "recreation." Not only were the "excommunications" reversed but Ferrario was forced out as diocesan ordinary relatively promptly.

SSPX is in the very bad habit of telling its gulls the very self-serving (for SSPX) lie that you cite.

If you know of any other bishops who are said to have excommunicated Catholics for attending SSPX Masses, please provide names of bishops and "excommunicates", dioceses, dates and details.

137 posted on 09/17/2006 4:12:53 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: BlackElk

Let me start by saying that I am no authority on SSPX, having been to only one of their Masses. Most of what I know, I learned here over the past 7 years. I have paid close attention to your arguments, and don't find all of them satisfying.

"You really have drunk the SSPX Kool Aid if you think that SSPX is responsible for ANYTHING positive"

Ah, yes, I remember your burning hatred for them.

"I was married in a Tridentine wedding Mass in Connecticut, courtesy of the late Archbishop John Whealon, two years before Marcel and his co-conspirators and adherent gulls were excommunicated and declared schismatic."

Do I remember correctly that you had to get special permission for that? Now that Archbishop Whealon has returned his soul to God, it might not be possible to (a) get permission or (b) find a priest who is able to say a Mass in Latin.

I haven't seen anything malignant or dishonest from LeFebre, or anything that justifies your white-hot opprobrium.

I still think it the case that only the SSPX saved the Tridentine from final oblivion, and if you want to convince me otherwise, you're going to have to provide strong evidence and argumentation.


138 posted on 09/17/2006 5:20:53 PM PDT by dsc
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To: BlackElk

Oh, I don't know.

The Old Rite was available here in Milwaukee before SSPX, too--but only because there was a "wink-wink" arrangement with R Weakland (of ALL people!!!)

But I think the case could be made that JPII wrote the Indult because he was concerned that SSPX & Co. were becoming "an alternative" for a number of otherwise-faithful RC's who were NOT questioning other provisions of VatII, nor were collecting memorabilia from a certain German regime from c. 1932-1945.

No, SSPX was not the Single Influence. But it had critical mass--moreso than the here-and-there onesy-twoseys around the US and Europe.


147 posted on 09/18/2006 7:56:59 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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