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To: conservatative strategery

I am confused by the word 'death' in this post. I thought she had an assumption. Is that not a physical taking up directly to heaven.

Also if she were without original sin; than she would neither want nor need Christ's redemption in any form.

Correct?


11 posted on 08/17/2006 5:18:41 AM PDT by Rhadaghast (Yeshua haMashiach hu Adonai Tsidkenu)
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To: Rhadaghast
I thought she had an assumption. Is that not a physical taking up directly to heaven.

The Church has not declared whether Mary died a physical death or not. I think most sources or opinions is that she did die, but was subsequently assumed into heaven, body and soul. (since Christ died - more coming up on this)

The explanation for Mary's Assumption is based on the concept of Consortium. This is based on Scripture:

"And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together". Romans 8:17

Since Mary participated in the Redemptive work (not that she was necessary, but God willed her being there and taking part), including the Suffering at Calvary, (SHE was ALSO pierced with a "sword" at the foot of the cross, as predicted by Simeon) she would also be glorified. Being the first hearer and believer of the Word, naturally, she would be the prototype of what would become of believers who followed after her.

Also if she were without original sin; than she would neither want nor need Christ's redemption in any form.

Mary needed salvation from sin just like any other human. However, God acted on her in a singular way, freeing her from original sin at her conception. Mary herself proclaims that God is her savior in her Magnificat:

"And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour". Luke 1:47

God saved her by preventing her from falling into sin.

Regards

13 posted on 08/17/2006 6:01:47 AM PDT by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Crysostom - Phil 2:8)
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To: Rhadaghast
Also if she were without original sin; than she would neither want nor need Christ's redemption in any form.

Correct?

Nope. She was preserved from original sin by and through the foreseen merits of her Son.

Nobody is saved apart from the merits of Jesus Christ earned on the Cross. Absolutely nobody. Not Mary, not infants, not me, not you, not anybody.

I am confused by the word 'death' in this post. I thought she had an assumption. Is that not a physical taking up directly to heaven.

Yes, but there's some disagreement on whether blessed Mary died physically before being assumed body and soul. The better-attested tradition is that she did die, and was placed in a tomb, but the tomb was later found to be empty.

16 posted on 08/17/2006 7:24:40 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Rhadaghast

"Also if she were without original sin; than she would neither want nor need Christ's redemption in any form."

Correct. If she lived a sinless life, she would not need Christ, yet she called Him Savior. The whole idea doesn't square with Scripture.


48 posted on 08/18/2006 5:44:11 PM PDT by conservatative strategery
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