The Rise of a Counterfeit Christianity

The Church Jesus Built ^ | 1997? | Various

[DouglasKC]

Isn't that exactly how you Protestants treat the Bible?

I'm not a protestant.

Get ten Protestants in a room, give them one verse and you'll get eleven interpretations!

Yep, usually.

Sola scriptura leads to SOLO scriptura -- unlike the Church where we read the debates put over the centuries by the Church fathers and we see more sides to it than we can imagine as single beings.

As I said, good teachers are needed, but scripture cannot be understood except under the guidance of the holy spirit.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Here is a link to A Calendar for the Holy Land for the year 27 a.d.***

I have two separate calenders for that date figured by two diferent groups. They show different days of the week for those dates.

[Claud]

The Seven Festivals Of The Messiah

Interesting. I could go on at length about the parallels between the richness of the Jewish feasts and the Catholic/Orthodox ones.

But instead, let me ask you this...in Leviticus 23 did God give those feasts to the Isrealites or to all the Gentiles?

[Claud]

I'll ping you on the question I asked above as well.

In Leviticus 23 did God give those feasts to the Isrealites or to all the Gentiles?

[DouglasKC]

In Leviticus 23 did God give those feasts to the Isrealites or to all the Gentiles?

You didn't ping me, but I got some time to kill. God gave the feasts to the sons of Israel:

Lev 23:2 "Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, 'The LORD'S appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations--My appointed times are these:

Any gentiles who becomes a Christian becomes a "son of Israel":

Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

And this is a good thing, because the new covenant is ONLY made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah:

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

If you do not consider yourself a son of Israel, or of the house of Israel or Judah, then you cannot be a party to the new covenant.

[Claud]

If you do not consider yourself a son of Israel, or of the house of Israel or Judah, then you cannot be a party to the new covenant.

Oh, I do. But surely you do not believe that *all* of the ordinances that were laid upon Israel in Leviticus by extension were laid upon the Church Israel, do you?

[DouglasKC]

Oh, I do. But surely you do not believe that *all* of the ordinances that were laid upon Israel in Leviticus by extension were laid upon the Church Israel, do you?

Yes and no. As Paul made clear in Hebrews, there were certain things that only pertained to the Levitical priesthood:

Heb 7:11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.

Primary among these changes was animal and/or grain sacrifices. In chapters 9 and 10 Paul clearly explains the purpose of animal sacrifices and how the sacrifice of Christ is the only sacrifice for sin we (Christians) need:

Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

There are other laws and regulations which can ONLY be applied on a national basis and were thus only applicable to Israel as a nation.

What most do is to go beyond these things and suppose that anything contained in the books of the "old testament" are not applicable to Christians.

[Claud]

There are other laws and regulations which can ONLY be applied on a national basis and were thus only applicable to Israel as a nation.

And how does one decide which is which?

[Diego1618]

There is no Scriptural command NOT TO celebrate Sunday as the day of Resurrection either.

C'mon Claud....that's silly. Why would you now want to do that anyway when you have been given Biblical proof it did not happen on Sunday morning?

And as for doing away with Passover, for the 100th time, we *do* celebrate Passover--only this is the Passover of the fulfillment, not the Passover of the promise.

Next spring I want you to tell all the folks in your parish that this year will be a celebration of "Passover" instead of an "Easter service". Please take along your digital camera so all us FReepers can see their reactions.

And I say again, it was *not* all of the early Churches in the East which had Easter on 14 Nisan. It was the bishops of Asia, i.e. Asia Minor--what we would now consider Turkey.

Yeah....these were most of the Churches that were directly influenced by the disciples of the last living Apostle, John. Do you think he might have known something about the correct date....and celebration?

And you still haven't answered why, when John's disciples dealt with the Easter Sunday people, they agreed to disagree *without condemning the practice.

I certainly did.....post #108.....paragraph 2.

You are lording more authority over Christendom than St. John's disciples did--

I have no authority Claud. I'm sorry I come across that way to you.

[Cronos]

Cronos, isn't it funny, that the term Sola Scriptura is not found in the bible?

Shucks, you don't say so??? Lemme look it up! But seriously, I got no problem with people reading and trying to make their own interpretations -- only that those folks should read what others have thought on the same lines -- what's really stupid is that all the "points" raised by protesters HAVE been raised over the past 2000 years -- our ancestors weren't the complete idiots and slaves that the Pros think they were.

Take Origen -- he had his doubts and he was wrong on many of his points, but the Church still calls him a Church father as he was asking about the nature of his faith and he, Origen, wasn't afraid to admit he was wrong on points (quite unlike many thumpers)

[Binghamton_native]

Why the negative terms like "Pros" and "thumpers"?

[Diego1618]

Easter is the Passover, you argue over words -- in Latin languages Easter is Pâques in French, pascua in Spanish, pasqua in Italian

Easter is the first Sunday after the first ecclesiastical full moon either on.... or after the Vernal Equinox.

Leviticus 23:5

[rodeocowboy]

Just read the Bible and follow it. Never follow a church; belong to one for spiritual companionship, but never follow a church. Follow Christ and His Word, the Bible and you will never go wrong.

[Diego1618]

If you really think you're bound by the minutiae of the Mosaic Law

Where in the world are you getting "This" from?

Paul would have recognized you instantly, and not as a friend, either.

1 Corinthians 5:7-8

You still got the best tag line, my friend.

[Diego1618]

Those same simple facts lost and misconstrued by a Church that has a vested interest in its monopoly and deception.

Bingo! Underline deception. This organization has known since its inception that the New Testament Church celebrated God's Holidays and Sabbaths. As you said.....this manner of worship was not in their vested interest.

[mckenzie7]

You would have a hard time following the bible, if it weren't for the Christian churches handing it down from generation to generation.
It is odd to me that so many people feel that they are inspired by the Holy Spirit to interpret the Bible and yet end up at odds with all of the other inspired readers of the Holy Bible.
Is the Holy Spirit playing games with you or could it be the prince of darkness?
For me, I will follow the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
With love in Jesus name!

[Uri’el-2012]

Psalm 118:8 It is better to take refuge in the LORD Than to trust in man.

Psalm 118:9 It is better to take refuge in the LORD Than to trust in princes

b'shem Y'shua

[Claud]

Next spring I want you to tell all the folks in your parish that this year will be a celebration of "Passover" instead of an "Easter service". Please take along your digital camera so all us FReepers can see their reactions.

Uhh, keep in mind that we use Latin. "Pascha" is what the feast is officially called IN LATIN. We don't even hear your hated word "Easter" except in the homily if the priest even chooses to use it. What do we hear instead in the liturgy? Pascha/Victimae Pascali laudes/cum Pascha nostrum immolatus est Christus/paschalibus mysteriis. Pascha, Pascha, Pascha--which is nothing but the Latin transliteration of Hebrew "Pesach".

And I say again, you think you have a right to condemn what John's own disciples did not condemn--based on your *particular* Biblical interpretation which almost no one in Christianity has shared for 2000 years. Just Diego1618, 2000 years later came along and discovered the truth that all the rest of Christendom stupidly missed. Millions of Christians, all wrong, all apostates, all deluded. Diego1618 and a handful of folks stand in the right--the last beacon of truth.

The sin of pride comes in many guises, my friend, and the temptation to gnosis is a very insidious one in Christianity.

[Uri’el-2012]

XS>One of the titles of the Roman Emperor was Pontifix Maximus, a title given to the Roman Emperor by the king of Ephesus who had inherited the title from Babylon

That is sooo funny -- the term Pontifex Maximus translates as Chief Priest

..........

132 posted on 07/11/2006 10:54:07 PM MDT by Cronos

My memory of Prep school Latin is Pontifex means Bridge Builder in Latin.

Maximus is the Chief. Therefore Pontifix Maximus is Chief Bridge Builder as in

The title of the Magian high priest of Babylon was "Chief Bridge Builder"
meaning the one who spans the gap between mortals and Satan and his hosts.
In Latin this title was written "Pontifex Maximus,"

I suggest you check with a Latin Scholar.

b'shem Y'shua

[Diego1618]

The sin of pride comes in many guises, my friend, and the temptation to gnosis is a very insidious one in Christianity.

Truer words have not been spoken!