Replies

>>Delphi, you are funny. You use this verse to say that the only way that someone can
>>say the words, "Jesus is Lord" is through the Holy Ghost. Mormon's believe that the
>>only way to get the gift of the Holy Ghost is through the "laying on of hands by one
>>with proper authority." You use this same logic to say that only members of the
>>Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints can have the gift of the Holy Ghost.....
>>All others, Catholic, Protestants, do not have the authority to have this gift. So how
>>do they profess that Christ is Lord?

Easy, They also testify by the power of the Holy Ghost. (I have never denyed that, nor does the Church)

Mormons do not say what you think we say.

The gift of the Holy Ghost is the right to have the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost.

All men can be moved upon by the spirit, that is commonly how they become members (Big Big Grin)

>> I think teaching of another Christ of a different Christ

We teach of Jesus Christ, Born of Mary, the only begotten of the father, you saying we don’t won’t change that. Your argument is tired; you keep repeating the same statements about what we believe without understanding the refutation of your postulates. Do you have anything new?

>>You can recognize false doctrine by knowing the word of GOD.

And it’s a good thing I do.

>>You must validate for yourself every doctrine you hear with the word of GOD (Bible).

Um, Praying about it is not an option then? OK, CC does not believe in prayer as a valid way of knowing anything, explains a lot. (I reserve the right to come back to this later)

>> Otherwise the antichrist will lead you into a false belief.
>>You will think you are following Christ but you will be a follower of the Antichrist.

I see, and there is no possibility that my witnesses of truth are correct because … You say so. So I am to take the word of an Internet poster over a personal witness from God?

BTW the James 2 quote, read the whole thing it is about people being justified by WORKS.

Try this on for size Gospel of John 17: 21 & 22 (the great intercessory prayer) Jesus draws a simile on his and God’s oneness.

21 That they all may be one; as thou, father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

“Even as we are one” We know he did not expect the apostles to join into one super apostle but a oneness of spirit, a oneness of purpose, a oneness of heart. This was his meaning, him who has ears to hear, let him hear.

There is support for what we teach in the Bible The very fact that we are having this discussion is proof that the gospel as presented in the Bible is “Debatable” because we are currently debating it. This proves the need for more scripture to add to the testimony so that the Gospel will be preached in its fullness, a fullness that you deny.

As we were told in General Conference in April, there are those who are wise… and those who are other-wise.

You must validate for yourself every doctrine you hear with the word of GOD (Bible).

Um, Praying about it is not an option then? OK, CC does not believe in prayer as a valid way of knowing anything, explains a lot....

You answered a question you directed to me. Delphi, read the web. There are almost as many "apostate" Mormons as those in good standing. I prayed for 45 years that I would receive the answer to my prayers, that the Church was true. Even after I became inactive, even when I became athiestic, I prayed. I wanted to believe it was true.

What happens to cause good Mormons like me to begin to doubt? One writer called it the "double bind" of Mormonism. The church promises happiness, joy, salvation, blessings, and a good life as a good person. Whether the church actually promises these things, members understand that living the gospel 100% will bring them close. When the Mormon does everything the church asks him to do, work, pray, study, tithe, go to meetings, do genealogy, do temple work, fulfill callings, etc., etc., etc., and somehow he does not feel that it's working the way it should, the response he gets from the church is that he isn't really doing it right, or often enough, or faithfully enough. The solution suggested to him is to study MORE, pray MORE, read MORE scriptures.

The double bind is that the church places the blame for not fulfilling its part of the bargain on the member. It's the member's fault. This can be psychologically devastating, especially to someone who is really devout, who is really trying, and who really does not see what he is doing wrong or how he is not living the gospel as completely as he can. It destroys a person's self-esteem, puts tremendous guilt on him, and he sees no way to solve his problem.

I have found the sweet joy of the Savior, who gave his life precisely because of me (and you), because I cannot live perfectly. I pray to him now,because he died for me. I pray to worship Him, I pray many times a day just to talk to Him, I have a relationship with Him. No longer do I beg and plead for Him to answer my heartfelt prayer that "the Church (LDS) is true." He answered me many years ago, I didn't listen to Him until I accepted his sacrifice on the cross for my sin. His answer was and always had been "NO."

I went to several bisops about my unbelief, the bishops advice was to pray more, or read the scriptures more, or "examine yourself and see if there aren't some areas of the Gospel where you are not keeping the commandments," i.e., "you would not be having this problem if you were living the gospel." I knew however that I had been as faithful as humanly possible. I came to believe God didn't love me, I thought He had turned his back to me, then quite naturally I began to doubt that this advice is from God, that God is inspiring this advice. This is the way God worked to answer my prayers. He showed me that it is Him and Him alone I should follow. Not Joseph Smith, not Harold B. Lee, or Gordon B. Hinckly, not the Stake President, or the Bishop. The answer to my prayers was that I should never defer my relationship to Him to the current "patriarch" of my family. God had always spoken to me, I had refused to listen because all these supposed "men of God" stood between me and my Father God.

Thomas Ferguson said (the Mormon authority on Book of Mormon archaeology, who was a secret apostate), "The LDS church is the greatest social club in the world!" But Mormonism, took away my individuality. I became part of the mass known as the Latter-day Saints. I was instructed several times a week about what to think, what to believe, how to behave, what to read, how to dress and how to spend my money. And after doing all that I had been told (as well as any human possible could,) I was told I failed because of me, because I needed a "test."

Your Church fails the test, it fails the Word of God, it fails as a "social experiment in mind control." Millions of ex-mormons, inactive-mormons, born-again Christians like me can't be wrong!