The Book of Mormon Challenge

Joseph Smith America Prophet ^ | 2006

[restornu]

The Book of Mormon is often dismissed as gibberish by those who have never taken the trouble to read it. In fact, its very existence poses a serious puzzle if it is not what it claims to be - an ancient record. Below is the Book of Mormon Challenge, an assignment that Professor Hugh Nibley at BYU sometimes gave to students in a required class on the Book of Mormon. The following text is taken from the Collected Works of Hugh Nibley, Vol.8, Ch.11, Pg.221 - Pg.222:

Since Joseph Smith was younger than most of you and not nearly so experienced or well-educated as any of you at the time he copyrighted the Book of Mormon, it should not be too much to ask you to hand in by the end of the semester (which will give you more time than he had) a paper of, say, five to six hundred pages in length. Call it a sacred book if you will, and give it the form of a history. Tell of a community of wandering Jews in ancient times; have all sorts of characters in your story, and involve them in all sorts of public and private vicissitudes; give them names--hundreds of them--pretending that they are real Hebrew and Egyptian names of circa 600 b.c.; be lavish with cultural and technical details--manners and customs, arts and industries, political and religious institutions, rites, and traditions, include long and complicated military and economic histories; have your narrative cover a thousand years without any large gaps; keep a number of interrelated local histories going at once; feel free to introduce religious controversy and philosophical discussion, but always in a plausible setting; observe the appropriate literary conventions and explain the derivation and transmission of your varied historical materials.

Above all, do not ever contradict yourself! For now we come to the really hard part of this little assignment. You and I know that you are making this all up--we have our little joke--but just the same you are going to be required to have your paper published when you finish it, not as fiction or romance, but as a true history! After you have handed it in you may make no changes in it (in this class we always use the first edition of the Book of Mormon); what is more, you are to invite any and all scholars to read and criticize your work freely, explaining to them that it is a sacred book on a par with the Bible. If they seem over-skeptical, you might tell them that you translated the book from original records by the aid of the Urim and Thummim--they will love that! Further to allay their misgivings, you might tell them that the original manuscript was on golden plates, and that you got the plates from an angel. Now go to work and good luck!

To date no student has carried out this assignment, which, of course, was not meant seriously. But why not? If anybody could write the Book of Mormon, as we have been so often assured, it is high time that somebody, some devoted and learned minister of the gospel, let us say, performed the invaluable public service of showing the world that it can be done." - Hugh Nibley

Structure and Complexity of the Book of Mormon First Nephi gives us first a clear and vivid look at the world of Lehi, a citizen of Jerusalem but much at home in the general world of the New East of 600 B.C. Then it takes us to the desert, where Lehi and his family wander for eight years, doing all the things that wandering families in the desert should do. The manner of their crossing the ocean is described, as is the first settlement and hard pioneer life in the New World dealt with.... The book of Mosiah describes a coronation rite in all its details and presents extensive religious and political histories mixed in with a complicated background of exploration and colonization. The book of Alma is marked by long eschatological discourses and a remarkably full and circumstantial military history. The main theme of the book of Helaman is the undermining of society by moral decay and criminal conspiracy; the powerful essay on crime is carried into the next book, where the ultimate dissolution of the Nephite government is described.

Then comes the account of the great storm and earthquakes, in which the writer, ignoring a splendid opportunity for exaggeration, has as accurately depicted the typical behavior of the elements on such occasions as if he were copying out of a modern textbook on seismology.... [Soon] after the catastrophe, Jesus Christ appeared to the most pious sectaries who had gathered at the temple.

...Can anyone now imagine the terrifying prospect of confronting the Christian world of 1830 with the very words of Christ? ...

But the boldness of the thing is matched by the directness and nobility with which the preaching of the Savior and the organization of the church are described. After this comes a happy history and then the usual signs of decline and demoralization. The death-struggle of the Nephite civilization is described with due attention to all the complex factors that make up an exceedingly complicated but perfectly consistent picture of decline and fall. Only one who attempts to make a full outline of Book of Mormon history can begin to appreciate its immense complexity; and never once does the author get lost (as the student repeatedly does, picking his way out of one maze after another only with the greatest effort), and never once does he contradict himself. We should be glad to learn of any other like performance in the history of literature. - Hugh Nibley, Collected Works Vol. 8

The four types of biblical experts There are four kinds of biblical experts: At the very top are the professionals who have been doing biblical research all their adult lives. They are usually professors in leading universities in various fields that are related to the Bible such as archaeologists, historians, paleographers, professors of the Bible, and professors of Near Eastern languages and literature.

These people are the most credible of all biblical experts and do not let religious views get in the way of the truth. This is why a lot of them consider themselves to be nonbelievers in the modern Christian and Jewish faiths. Their reputation and standing in the academic community is very important to them. This causes them to be cautious and not rashly declare statements upon any subject without presenting verifiable proof for their claims. It is to them that encyclopedias, journals and universities go to for information. Their community is very small, but extremely influential in the secular world. One distinctive feature of this group is the difficulty outsiders face when reading their writings which causes them to be a fairly closed society.

The second group of biblical experts are those who have legitimate degrees and may have initially been in the first group but were spurned by the first group for being unreliable because they disregard demonstrable proof simply because their religious convictions teach otherwise. For them, their religion's teaching overrides real biblical research. Very few of them can be considered Fundamentalists.

The third group of biblical experts are the "biblical experts." These people disregard the works and conclusions of the first group, and view the second group as their mentors. Nearly all anti-Mormons who produce anti-Mormon paraphernalia fall into this group. Their views are purely theological and display ignorance of legitimate biblical studies. Their arguments are non-rational and are frequently sensational hype and empty rhetoric. These people are very vocal and constantly parade their "expertise" upon the unknowing masses by giving seminars in various churches and religious schools. Nearly all of them are Fundamentalists.

The fourth group of "biblical experts" are those who have never read the Bible completely and do not even know the history and contents of the Bible. They are completely reliant upon materials produced by the third group and may have five verses in the Bible memorized to quote at people they encounter (in nearly every instance John 3:16 and John 14:6 are included in these five verses) to give the impression they are experts in the Bible. They usually need the Table of Contents to find various biblical books and are extremely vocal in their condemnation of Mormonism. They personify the wise adage:

The less knowledge a man has, the more vocal he is about his expertise.

They read an anti-Mormon book and suddenly they're experts on Mormonism:

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

The remainder of Christians are those who believe in the Bible but never read it. The Bible is a very complex book for most Christians and seems to possess a power that intimidates them. This is why a normal Christian is impressed whenever he or she encounters an individual who can quote scripture. It is this ignorance of the Bible that causes some to proclaim themselves "biblical experts."

I am not aware of anyone in the first group of biblical experts who are anti-Mormon. If anything, real biblical scholars who know Mormon theology have a profound sense of admiration for it and are usually astonished that so many facets of Mormonism reflect authentic biblical teachings.

They are frequently puzzled at how Joseph Smith could find out the real biblical teaching since modern Judaism and Christianity abandoned them thousands of years ago. Uniquely Mormon doctrines such as the anthropomorphic nature of God, the divine nature and deification potential of man, the plurality of deities, the divine sanction of polygamy, the fallacy of sola scriptura, the superiority of the charismatic leaders over the ecclesiastical leaders and their importance, the inconsequence of Original Sin because of the Atonement of Christ, the importance of contemporary revelation, and so forth are all original Jewish and Christian thought before they were abandoned mainly due to Greek philosophical influence.

Mormonism to these scholars is the only faith that preserves the characteristics of the early chosen people. This doesn’t mean these scholars believe Mormonism is the true religion, since their studies are on an intellectual level instead of a spiritual one.

On the other hand, the leaders of the anti-Mormon movement are nearly all in the third category with a couple in the second. Real biblical experts (who aren’t Mormon) and are in the first category normally refer to the “biblical experts” in the third group as the “know-nothings” or the “Fundamentalist know-nothings.” These terms aren’t completely derogatory, but are accurate descriptions of the knowledge of the “biblical experts” in the third group. Ed Watson - Mormonism: Faith of the 21st Century

[colorcountry]

Avenging Angel? Orrin Porter Rockwell was once a poster at FR? Wow, I thought he was dead. If he's still around after all these years, he must be one of the three Nephites who will never die. LOL

[P-Marlowe]

If he's still around after all these years, he must be one of the three Nephites who will never die. LOL

I've always wondered (even when I was an LDS) why, if there were 3 Nephites who would never die, then why did the plates have to be buried and why did the American Church which was supposedly established by Jesus in AD 33, die off completely? What have these Nephites been doing all this time? Hiding in some cave protecting the holy grail?

And if these guys held the priesthood from then until now, then what was the need for a restoration of the priesthood from heaven? Didn't these living Nephites have the authority to pass the priesthood down according the the mormon theology?

Just wondering.

[1000 silverlings]

there are three Nephites who will never die? I didn't see that on Big Love.

[Colofornian]

So is that the way you address most challenges? Just use someone else to make an indirect ad hominen attack (citing the Delphi User link)?

Rather convenient, don't you think?

The other link you put up mentions the IRR content, but the IRR content is in reality BoM content.

Do you want to explain your own personal belief why it is that "the Son of" has been inserted into three BoM passages that was not in the 1830 version?

Do you want to explain your own personal belief as why later editors of the BoM changed kings in the text?

Do you want to explain your own personal belief as to why the BoM even has post-dictation editors?

Do you want to explain your own personal beliefs as to why a man-turned-angel named Nephi [and if Nephi was such a great man, why didn't he become a god?...in fact, that's a curious evolution: man to angel? do you believe you could become an angel?] would bother to painstakingly record on gold plates the phrase "and it came to pass" at least 999 times when such a phrase would be a cumbersome phrase to etch in gold?

For the record LDS authors like Brant A. Gardner concede that the BoM uses the phrase 999 times and that "that 'and it came to pass' appears to be even more prevalent in that edition that it does in the modern version

Haven't you ever been round a campfire when you just knew that somebody telling "The Legend of XYZ" was making it up on the spot...and that by throwing out excess baggage words, it gave them time to construct what was going to come next? If I was making up a new historical book, and I had to figure what "boogie men" were next going to fight God's righteous tribes, I think inserting the phrase, "and it came to pass" 1,000 times would give me just enough time to throw something together. And you know what, that phrase in my story would be more common in the beginning because it's harder when you're starting from scratch and you have to develop all the characters.

Well, surprise, surprise. 1 Nephi has the phrase in the 37 of its 49 chapters!

[Colofornian]

Avenging Angel? Orrin Porter Rockwell was once a poster at FR? Wow, I thought he was dead. If he's still around after all these years, he must be one of the three Nephites who will never die.

LOL!!!

That'll teach that avenger! Dare he try to avenge in this e-territory, he'll be tarred & feathered with e-banishment and sent into e-purgatory or e-spirit prison until somebody's e-baptized by proxy on his behalf!

[colorcountry]

Well........maybe living forever is a curse. As someone who is saved and knows where I'll go after I die (with assurance), I'd have to say it definatley IS a curse.

Those three Nephite dudes must have done something very, very bad...Jehova (Jesus, who is not the same as Elohim, God) must have caused a cloud upon their minds so they couldn't remember where the blasted Hill Cumorah was, and obviously they lost the priesthood because they fell into evil.

BUT WAIT....the Church never published an "official" statement that the three Nephites actually exist....OR that the Apostle John is still wandering the earth, never to die. : )

[colorcountry]

I'm going to use that as my new tagline.

Watch out, you'll be e-banished and sent into e-spirit prison until somebody e-baptizes you by proxy.

[Colofornian]

Nibley writes They are frequently puzzled at how Joseph Smith could find out the real biblical teaching since modern Judaism and Christianity abandoned them thousands of years ago.

Wow! What an attack on Christianity!!! Somehow we find it too routine as we daily absorb LDS leaders' blasts and those who post their comments--comments which label Christians as those who abandon "real" Biblical teachings. Joseph Smith himself said all our creeds were an "abomination" to God and that our professing leaders were "corrupt."

Yet, somehow, some LDS folks get upset when their sacred books or doctrines are critiqued. You can't have it both ways. You can't call us betrayers, apostates, abominations, and corrupt, and then expect us to not object, can you?

We don't attack the person, like I was in an indirect way on an earlier post in this thread. But we do contest beliefs and doctrines and what portends to be the Word of God!

In our book, are LDS an "abomination" to God? No! They are the pearl of great price to Him, for He gives His own Son that they might live!

So, which gospel are we to believe? The "restored" version which in one fell swoop labels all of our creeds as an "abomination" and our leaders as "corrupt?" Or, rather, the one which says that all people made in God's image are so valuable that He would leave heaven to find that which is lost?

[restornu]

That was no hominen it was very real that thread was because of the Avenging Angel....

What I don't understand is it is a fact that the LDS has answered the same question over and over and never has the poster bother to acknowledge they just move on to the next
the talking point!

It seems to the poster it is not about dialogue or a discussion it is about lampoon and other immature actions!

I don’t agree with Full Court, but it is the same pack of wolves that go around trying to make themselves feel better than to have a dialogue with a fellowman!

This is the most unkind thing to do and I don’t think the Lord redeem us to behave in such a matter.

His commandment is to Love One Another …..he can see all of our hearts and minds we only have a limited view on the whole situation!

Why is that so hard to do the things Jesus ask us, if we say we love the Lord Jesus Christ?

[Utah Girl]

I do intend on replying. However it will be next week. I am going out of town for the weekend.

[colorcountry]

Thanks for the warning. : ) I'm just kidding. Have a fun time.

[Colofornian]

Nibley writes: Uniquely Mormon doctrines such as the anthropomorphic nature of God, the divine nature and deification potential of man, the plurality of deities, the divine sanction of polygamy, the fallacy of sola scriptura, the superiority of the charismatic leaders over the ecclesiastical leaders and their importance, the inconsequence of Original Sin because of the Atonement of Christ, the importance of contemporary revelation, and so forth are all original Jewish and Christian thought before they were abandoned mainly due to Greek philosophical influence.

So. The "restored" Gospel (the old truths that were supposedly "true" before Christians came and suppressed them were):

(1) God is made in the image of man ("anthropomorphic nature of God");

(2) We are gods in embryo ("the divine nature...of man")

(3) We are candidates for godhood ("deification potential of man") [How can we be both god-in-embryo and yet only have divine "potentiality"? I guess that's consistent at least with the "Pro-choice" worldview...embryos are only potentially human...and we all know where that doctrine came from!

(4) We all need to embrace polytheism ("the plurality of deities")

(5) "Polygamy as a divine sanction" (if not for time, then for eternity)

(6) "The fallacy of Scripture alone" [If Scripture doesn't at least need a pope or a church to interpret it, it at least needs an LDS living prophet because Scripture alone apparently just doesn't cut it, eh?...so much for 2 Peter 1:20: "Above all [in the Greek that means "Above all"], you must understand [in the Greek that means "you must understand"] that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation."

(7) "the inconsequence of Original Sin because of the Atonement of Christ" (the fact that "wide is the road that leads to destruction and narrow is the way that leads to life" is now "inconsequential?" What? The majority of folks heading to eternal hell is inconsequential? [and the BoM describes hell in terms of eternal damnation, not a temporary spirit prison, mind you). Only in LDS land was sin a fall "upward" because it opened the door to godhood.

(8) "The importance of contemporary revelation" (What? Since when isn't the Living Christ "contemporary" enough for LDS leaders? "In the PAST God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but IN THESE LAST DAYS he has spoken to us by his Son...through whom He made the universe." (Hebrews 1:1-2).

Christ IS our Contemporary, Living Prophet and Living Revelation! While He may choose to send forth mouthpieces on His behalf, they are like undershepherds of the Chief Shepherd. We have no lack of a Living Prophet. No mere mortal usurps His place on the Prophetic Throne. He is still Prophet, High Priest and King as the prophets of old foretold!

[visually_augmented]

restornu: "There are 3 members of the Godhead if you want to think they are one blob find"

No doubt most Bible believers attest to the 3 persons of the Godhead. I think I need a bit more information to understand your definition of "3 members".

The Bible is very explicit that there is only one God. I would have to print a veritable book in order to reference all the instances in the Bible that indicate but one God. The 3 persons of this Godhead must be such that their essence is still one.

This characteristic of God is one that many have struggled over throughout history and our full understanding of this will not be complete until after our dying breath. Suffice it to say that Christ knew what he was talking about when he made the following statement:

John 5 (NKJV)
26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
29 and come forth--those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

[colorcountry]

I keep on posting rebuttals, because you keep posting devotionals.

I recognize the fact that all LDS are admonished to "always be missionaries." I was one once, remember. There is no lack of places you can go for LDS Devotionals. In fact the Religion Moderator even said that devotionals may be better suited for denominational sites, unlike FR that is made for social discourse and discussion....(or something like that.)

You are posting these "devotionals" as a protected way to "get your message out" without allowing for rebuttal. For those of us who believe you are portraying an inaccurate picture, and possibly causing Christians to fall away, it is our responsibility to confront these claims of the LDS head on. As long as you keep posting your point of view, I will keep rebutting it. I believe it is something God has called me to do....just as LDS believe they need to proselyte to, and convert all of us.

[restornu]

In other words you want the LDS Freepers to shut up and disappear?

[colorcountry]

No, I do not want you to shut up and disappear...even though that is what you asked us Christians to do.

I said, I would rebut what I see as an attempt to misrepresent the word of God. I vow to do that as long as I live and breathe. I also vow to be respectful of individuals that may entertain those erroneous beliefs. I try very hard not to impugn any person. And restornu, I have tried never, never to attack you personally. If I have I repent here and now publicly.

[CholeraJoe]

If the Mormons are descendants of a tribe of Israelites, how come there are so many blue-eyed blonds named Sorenson in SLC and very few Goldstiens?

[TXBubba]

The members of the Godhead I believe in are not schizo!

Thank you for your clarification of that fact. I had two mormon missionaries try to tell me that they worshipped the same God that I did. You have succeeded to clarifying to me that they don't. Thanks again.

[Diego1618]

Click on the photo!

Already have...that's what prompted my original post #15 and question to you.