Posted on 04/22/2006 5:05:54 PM PDT by tridentine
Beautiful. Maybe Mel Gibson's dad can start going there.
Got it in one. "Rome has spoken".
And thanks for the kind words/sentiments. I look forward to enjoying the rest of my life (long or short) in union with the true Christ-ian church, established by Him and in continuous existence ever since.
The "Magisterium decided" no such thing.
"The Church is without question a living organism, and as an organism in respect of the Sacred Liturgy also, she grows, matures, develops, adapts and accommodates herself to temporal needs and circumstances, provided only that the integrity of her doctrine be safeguarded. This notwithstanding, the temerity and daring of those who introduce novel liturgical practices, or call for the revival of obsolete rites out of harmony with laws and rubrics, deserve reproof. It has pained Us grievously to note, (...) that such innovations are actually being introduced, not merely in minor details but in matters of major importance as well. They are, in point of fact, those who make use of the vernacular in the celebration of the august Eucharistic Sacrifice; those who transfer certain feast days - which have been appointed and established after mature deliberation - to other dates; those finally who delete from the prayer books approved for public use the sacred texts of the Old Testament, deeming them little suited and inopportune for modern times.
The use of the Latin language, customary in a considerable portion of the Church, is a manifest and beautiful sign of unity, as well as an effective antidote for any corruption of doctrinal truth."
(Pius XII: Encyclical Mediator Dei, November 20, 1947)
" If anyone says that the Mass should be celebrated in the vernacular only, let him be Anathema . " - Council of Trent (Session XXII, Canon 9)
Looks like Rome spoke a later and modified word. Vatican II was a validly called Council, and the decisions from it were "ratified" by the current successor of Peter. Live with it.
Sadly, some think a language, rather than our Triune God, preserves the Church
"[T]he use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites."
-Vatican II, Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy
An infallible statement is true for all time. It cannot be "modified".
Vatican II was a validly called Council, and the decisions from it were "ratified" by the current successor of Peter.
Please cite any quote from any VII document which declares something infallibly that is contrary to previously declared infallible statements which I cited above.
And as for, "Live with it.", with regard to VII, we are living with it, unfortunately:
Sadly some just like to set up a straw man because they have no valid argument against the position they are trying to dismiss, which is the same belief held by Pope Pius XII:
"The use of the Latin language, customary in a considerable portion of the Church, is a manifest and beautiful sign of unity, as well as an effective antidote for any corruption of doctrinal truth."
(Pius XII: Encyclical Mediator Dei, November 20, 1947)
Excuse me, but what makes you think this particular statement comes under the category of "infallible". Not all pronouncements of Councils fall into that category--only those specifically identified as such. There are categories that are infallible and those that are not. I read a neat five-fold division that covers the categorie well. I'll see if I can find it again, and will post it (I had intended to memorize it, but haven't yet).
Also see "bornacatholic"'s comments in post #25.
Clue---"preserved" doesn't translate into "used exclusively". If your parish wants to have both rites, and your bishop OK's it, fine--go for it. But there is nothing "magic" or "sacred" specifically about the Tridentine rite as compared to the "Novus Ordo".
The wording. The anathema is a big clue that it is infallible.
You're not getting it. Within the TLM, Latin is not used "exclusively". Every Sunday mass the lesson/epistle and the Gospel are read in the vernacular after being said in Latin, and the sermon of course is also in the vernacular. The argument is not whether vernacular can be used at all within a mass, but that the vernacular should not be used exclusively as is the current practice in most NO masses today, (which is contrary to Trent)
To repeat:
" If anyone says that the Mass should be celebrated in the vernacular only, let him be Anathema . " - Council of Trent (Session XXII, Canon 9)
**The real issue is the reverence and fidelity to church teachings.**
And this reverence can happen in a Novus Ordo Mass too; a lot depends on the priest.
Are you personally attacking him/her? I didn't perceive any so-called "Hate" at all.
** I wouldn't have converted to Catholicism.**
Welcome home, fellow Catholic!
Magic no, sacred yes.
"[The traditional Roman Mass is]...the most venerable in all Christendom, with a history of unbroken use far longer than that of any Eastern rite, there being no doubt that the essential parts of the Mass are of Apostolic origin." -Fr. Adrian Fortescue - A Study of the Roman Liturgy.
Have you ever really compared the two?
Nope. Church councils are only considered infallible on "matters of faith and morals". The language to be used in Church is neither--it's more like "company policy".
Thanks.
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