Posted on 04/20/2006 11:16:00 AM PDT by Gamecock
Thankfully, I don't find that true at all.
From Topcat's homepage...
"Rome has not essentially changed. Rome declared that what it said at the time of the Reformation was infallible and could not change. Declared it to be irreformible truth. Rome has not changed and precious truths of God's word are still worth upholding even at the cost of unity even at the cost of being considered "troublemakers" in the religious world. We need to guard the antithesis against the destructive error of Rome." -- Dr. Greg L. Bahnsen, From a tape, THE REFORMATION, October 28, 1990. "The Reformation is dying daily in our day when the Ecumenical Movement, and other forces like unto it, wish to soften the antithesis with Rome, today. I want to assure you that it's not my pugnacious debating nature that makes me say we must exalt that antithesis and guard it. It's my love for the Lord Jesus Christ and the purity of His word.
CS-"hmmmmm..."Nice to see you again Dr. Piper?""
Leave it to Calvin to attend the right mega-church. ;O)
bump to 281
The Church was much more unified in his day. There wasn't even the East-West schism yet. There was the Church, and there were the schismatics.
My tagline is quite consistant with my lenient attitude. No matter how bad the Church screws things up, I am still loyal to her. No matter how screwed up a part of the Church may be - and believe me, there are some pretty messed up parts of the Church - they are still "the Church" if they teach Christ, his death and resurrection.
This is also consistent with my three-tier approach - the essentials as defined by the Bible interpreted through the lens of the Creeds; the doctrinal, as defined by my church's stnadards; and the personal. The deity of Christ belongs in the first, Calvinism in the second, and permissive use of alcohol in the third. The first establishes the outer bounds of what is Christianity, the second the type of Church I will affiliate myself with, and the third the practices I hold myself accountable to.
While he was speaking of racial reconciliation, this applies here. Wellington Boone put it this way, "If God is your father, then I am your brother. We are already one in Christ."
There's a lot of wisdom in that.
I take it from your post that you believe that the Reformation was not a necessity, but merely an unfortunate misunderstanding.
Can't we all just.... get along?
The two are not mutually exclusive. The fact of the matter is that the Reformation was a very much needed correction. The resultant schism, however, is a tragedy.
In his epilogue he posits that perhaps the ecclesial discord is part of God's plan, and I've thought that myself many times. Easier to preserve a remnant, IMO. I see the ecumenical movement as dangerous too because when all is said and done, I don't see the capacity for true intropspection. Maybe I'm wrong, and I wouldn't mind being proved wrong at all.
The schism between the "Church" and Rome occurred long before the Reformation. The Reformation was in many way a restoration. The Roman Church organization had drifted far from the truths of scripture long before Luther nailed his papers to the Wittenberg Door. The Reformation was a rebirth of doctrinal purity and scriptural authority. If there is a schism in the Christian Church it is because the Roman Church heriarchy have not followed in the footsteps of the Reformers.
Now where are my asbestos underwear?
Amen!
To the drawers!!!
There are other organizations that make that very same claim, Corin, in just that way.
If the claim of "God is my father" is enough to make a brother out of the declarant, then we need to join hands with Jews, Muslims, JW's, Mormons, Universalists, Theosophists, Christian Scientists and Spiritualists and all sing a round of Kumbaya.
I think we need to be more discerning than that.
"...the restoration of the church is the work of God, and no more depends on the hopes and opinions of men, than the resurrection of the dead, or any other miracle of that description. Here, therefore, we are not to wait for facility of action, either from the will of men, or the temper of the times, but must rush forward through the midst of despair. It is the will of our Master that his gospel be preached. Let us obey his command, and follow whithersoever he calls. What the success will be it is not ours to inquire. Our only duty is to wish for what is best, and beseech it of the Lord in prayer; to strive with all zeal, solicitude, and diligence, to bring about the desired result, and, at the same time, to submit with patience to whatever that result may be." -- John Calvin
ping to 293
Sounds like Paul Johnson has the makings of a first-rate Reformer. 8~)
I think you both know that neither he nor I meant joining hands with Jews, Muslims, JW's, Mormons, Universalists, Theosophists, Christian Scientists and Spiritualists all singing a round of Kumbaya.
But the sentiment was one of universalism. Such a statement could easily be interpreted as a call to brotherhood of all those who call their peculiar God, "Father."
Context counselor. Context.
Of course, that class is limited to real, orthodox Christians. But that class is bigger than any denomination - or even any of the three branches of Christendom.
Exactly jude.
For this to be problematic one would need to make the assumption that Jews, Muslims, JW's, Mormons, Universalists, Theosophists, Christian Scientists and Spiritualists all singing a round of Kumbaya share the same God as Father.
That is certainly not the case, nor is it the sentiment of that statement.
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