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To: Invincibly Ignorant

This only further demonstrates the degree of your ignorance. The writings of the OT at one time have included more and less of what we now consider canon. The Catholic Church defined what we now have in our Bibles. Protestants -- Luther, Calvin and others -- made additional changes.


13 posted on 02/26/2006 2:11:53 PM PST by AlaninSA (It's one nation under God -- brought to you by the Knights of Columbus)
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To: AlaninSA
The Catholic Church defined what we now have in our Bibles. Protestants -- Luther, Calvin and others -- made additional changes.

They have never defined what I have in my Tanahk. We didn't adopt 2/3rds of your writings, I believe it was the other way around.

25 posted on 02/26/2006 3:38:18 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: AlaninSA; Invincibly Ignorant
This only further demonstrates the degree of your ignorance. The writings of the OT at one time have included more and less of what we now consider canon. The Catholic Church defined what we now have in our Bibles. Protestants -- Luther, Calvin and others -- made additional changes.

Romans 3:
[1] Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision?
[2] Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews are entrusted with the oracles of God.

But then, what does Paul know?
30 posted on 02/26/2006 3:54:34 PM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know nothing.)
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To: AlaninSA; Invincibly Ignorant
This only further demonstrates the degree of your ignorance. The writings of the OT at one time have included more and less of what we now consider canon.

The Catholic Church defined what we now have in our Bibles. Protestants -- Luther, Calvin and others -- made additional changes.

How can you say that there are millions who say the Bible is infallible?

Many here on this forum have said that over and over through the years!

You your sefl might have said it!

43 posted on 02/26/2006 8:03:05 PM PST by restornu (words of Zenock to be crucified, of Neum to be buried in a sepulcher,of Zenos three days of darknes)
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To: AlaninSA

In the interests of fairness, there is a distinction that needs to be made here.

From a Christian standpoint, you are right when saying that the OT canon - along with the NT canon, of course - was fixed by the Catholic Church in the 4th and 5th Centuries. And that is all that should matter to us, since we believe that the Holy Spirit guided the process from the viewpoint that Christianity, as a fullfillment of Judaism, had supplanted it with respect to authority. However, the Jews today, obviously, do not recognize that authority of the early Church to decide anything. Their ancestors came up with the Jewish canon of Scripture on their own, at the rabbinic council of Jamnia (also known as Javneh) about 90 AD.

It is true that the two canons differ, in that the Jews adopted the Masoretic text (Hebrew) and the Christians adopted the Septuagint text (Greek). It is true, from our standpoint, that the Jewish council, coming 60 years after the founding of the Church and 20 years after the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple, no longer had the authority to canonize Scripture. And, finally, it is true that the council of Jamnia was convened in the first place largely to circumvent the growth and authority of Christianity. Nevertheless, looked at from the Jewish POV, our councils mean nothing to them, and, regardless of its motivations, Jamnia determined their canon of Scripture without our help. The Jewish canon being independently derived, they would say that they owe us "nothing." By default, they arrived at a canon that is 39/46 the same as ours; they're not about to acknowledge us in the process. On purely human terms, they would be correct in saying we had nothing to do with their Scripture.


57 posted on 02/27/2006 8:27:11 AM PST by magisterium
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