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To: RnMomof7; xzins
Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honoured with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence."

Ma'am, you should have continued reading paragraph 80, which you quoted so nicely. "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together and communicate one with the other. FOR BOTH OF THEM, FLOWING OUT OF THE SAME DIVINE WELL SPRING, COME TOGETHER IN SOME FASHION TO FORM ONE THING AND MOVE TOWARDS THE SAME GOAL."

That is why Catholics give Apostolic Tradition its due reverance - it is from God! However, it doesn't follow that we hold it as "equal" to Scripture. Take out your handy-dandy Catechism and read Paragraph 103-108, the section on "Christ - the Unique Word of Sacred Scripture". Within these paragraphs, you will find that the Scripture has God as its author, that it has always been venerated as the Church venerates the Lord's Body (the Eucharist) {103}. "She never ceases to present to the faithful the bread of life, taken from the one table of God's Word and Christ's Body." The Council of Trent made the effort to NOT equate the two (Tradition and Scripture). However, they do come from the same source... Jesus Christ. Are you not rejecting part of Jesus Christ, then?

bible interpretation the sole right of pope and bishops

Paragraph 100 is not to mean that no one can read the Scriptures, but rather, that no one can come into opposition with the Holy Spirit, who guides the Church's Magesterium. When two opposing views come from Scripture, we are to accept the view of the Church. Rather than reading a paragraph that is a summary (100), perhaps you should glance at paragraph 91-95. For example, from paragraph 94:

through the contemplation and study of believers (Protestants are not excluded) who ponder these things in their hearts, it is particular "theological research which deepens knowledge of revealed truths.

from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which believers (Protestants not excluded) experience, the Sacred Scripture grow with the one who reads them.

You are encouraged to read the Bible... But when you disagree with the "...preaching of those who have received, along with their right of succession in the episcopate, the sure charism of truth", know that you are incorrect, and the Spirit of Truth is correct. Paragraph 100 correctly states WHO is tasked with ensuring we have the correct interpretation, when people disagree.

You are free to attempt to claim some abstract spiritual authority over Protestants for your church if you like, but many of us do not only not agree with that we actively reject it and deny anything more than a historic tie to the Roman church.

Wonderful!! Can you point me to the Church Christ refers to in Matthew 16 and 18? If I have a problem with another Christian, where can I find "the Church" if it is invisible ONLY??? We disagree on the Scriptural teaching of the Eucharist. How can we ever find out the truth? There is only one correct stance - we both cannot be correct. Good thing there is a visible Church in where we can learn the correct answer...

The invisible church is made up of the saved, to that extent any saved within the Catholic church are members of the invisible church, beyond that we have no spiritual connection. To that end anyone that has believed in Christ alone for their salvation is my brother in Christ.

You are free to make some claim of an abstract invisible Church that has practically no basis in Scriptures. You are part of the Church as a result of your Baptism, a Catholic belief done using Catholic words and ritual. Certainly, a visible person baptised you using visible words and visible water, correct?

Regards

140 posted on 02/06/2006 11:20:52 AM PST by jo kus
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To: jo kus; RnMomof7

The question about the church being comprised of the saved is something with which we would agree...all of us I hope. Rnmom has reduced the equation to its simplest form.

The saved are those who believe in Jesus Christ. There are no saved who are unbelievers; there are no unbelievers who are saved.

I do not think the bible supports the notion that baptism confers salvation. An unbelieving atheist gets as much benefit from baptism as does a duck from a good roasting.

Both will be consumed.

By grace we are saved through faith....


142 posted on 02/06/2006 11:28:51 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: jo kus; RnMomof7; xzins
Wonderful!! Can you point me to the Church Christ refers to in Matthew 16 and 18? If I have a problem with another Christian, where can I find "the Church" if it is invisible ONLY??? We disagree on the Scriptural teaching of the Eucharist. How can we ever find out the truth? There is only one correct stance - we both cannot be correct. Good thing there is a visible Church in where we can learn the correct answer...

The church discussed in Matthew 16 is the organization that is built on faith in Christ who is the Rock (1Pe.2:8) and the only foundation for the true church (1Cor.3:11).

Those churches are local, not united under any human head or gov't.

The spiritual church (made up of all those who believe in the saving work of Christ) is revealed by Paul, to whom alone it was revealed (Eph.3:3) and who revealed it to Peter (2Pe.3:15-16)

158 posted on 02/06/2006 12:52:53 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (Gal. 4:16)
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