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To: NYer

I'll tell you what would be a REAL miracle for John Paul II or any other potential saint: Getting this board to stop all these flame wars! I've never seen so many verbal tomatoes. Compared to getting you guys to KEEP IT DOWN herding cats is a snap.
Does Pope Benedict get the last word on this honor for his old friend? Just curious, this Presbyterian doesn't know anything about the Faith.


198 posted on 01/31/2006 8:35:26 AM PST by PandaRosaMishima (she who tends the Nightunicorn)
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To: PandaRosaMishima
Does Pope Benedict get the last word on this honor for his old friend? Just curious, this Presbyterian doesn't know anything about the Faith.

The Pope makes the ultimate decision, after all the evidence has been weighed. There's nothing that says it has to be this particular Pope. The decision is not supposed to be emotional or based upon personal knowledge of the person. Hence the requirement (in normal cases) of a "waiting period" before a person could even be considered.

SD

200 posted on 01/31/2006 8:41:45 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: PandaRosaMishima

Amen!

The idea behind canonization of saints is fairly straightforward.

First, the Church is not "creating" saints when undertaking the canonization process. The Church is simply acknowledging the judgment of God already undertaken concerning a particular soul. Really, *all* people in Heaven are saints; canonized saints are just people whom the Church has noticed and wants to hold-up to the faithful as particularly good role-models.

The process is well-described by the following notes issued in September 1997 by the Vatican press office:

"1. Canon norms regarding the procedure to be followed for causes of saints are contained in the Apostolic Constitution 'Divinus Perfectionis Magister,' promulgated by John Paul II on January 25, 1983.

"2. To begin a cause it is necessary for at least 5 years to have passed since the death of the candidate. This is to allow greater balance and objectivity in evaluating the case and to let the emotions of the moment dissipate.

"3. The bishop of the diocese in which the person whose beatification is being requested died is responsible for beginning the investigation. The promoter group ('Actor Causae'): diocese, parish, religious congregation, association, asks the bishop through the postulator for the opening of the investigation. The bishop, once the 'nulla osta' of the Holy See is obtained, forms a diocesan tribunal for this purpose. Witnesses are called before the tribunal to recount concrete facts on the exercise of Christian virtues considered heroic, that is, the theological virtues: faith, hope and charity, and the cardinal virtues: prudence, justice, temperance and fortitude, and others specific to his state in life. In addition, all documents regarding the candidate must be gathered. At this point he is entitled to the title of Servant of God.

"4. Once the diocesan investigation is finished, the acts and documentation are passed on to the Congregation for the Causes of Saints. The public copy used for further work is put together here. The postulator, resident in Rome, follows the preparation of the 'Positio', or summary of the documentation that proves the heroic exercise of virtue, under the direction of a relator of the Congregation. The 'Positio' undergoes an examination (theological) by nine theologians who give their vote. If the majority of the theologians are in favour, the cause is passed on for examination by cardinals and bishops who are members of the congregation. They hold meetings twice a month. If their judgment is favourable, the prefect of the congregation presents the results of the entire course of the cause to the Holy Father, who gives his approval and authorizes the congregation to draft the relative decree. The public reading and promulgation of the decree follows.

"5. For the beatification of a confessor a miracle attributed to the Servant of God, verified after his death, is necessary. The required miracle must be proven through the appropriate canonical investigation, following a procedure analogous to that for heroic virtues. This one too is concluded with the relative decree. Once the two decrees are promulgated (regarding the heroic virtues and the miracle) the Holy Father decides on beatification, which is the concession of public worship, limited to a particular sphere. With beatification the candidate receives the title of Blessed.

"6. For canonization another miracle is needed, attributed to the intercession of the Blessed and having occurred after his beatification. The methods for ascertainment of the affirmed miracle are the same as those followed for beatification. Canonization is understood as the concession of public worship in the Universal Church. Pontifical infallibility is involved. With canonization, the Blessed acquires the title of Saint."


The point is, again, to raise up to the faithful's awareness people who, by way of their heroic virtue, have led lives that are particularly valuable as role models. The canonization of a saint is considered an infallible act of the pope, that is, the person in question "is" in Heaven. There are, of course, many, many other people in Heaven who will never be canonized, but we don't know absolutely for certain who, specifically, they are. Many of these anonymous souls are likely to have led lives even more estimable than some of the canonized; we'll know this at the General Judgment. God grants a small window into Heaven now to give us examples, but the greater host of people who have been saved and are now contemplating the Beatific Vision is not important for us to know now.

The process is not a "rubber stamp," though. Many causes are started and languish for years, even centuries. Many of these never make it. Are these people therefore known to be in Hell? No. Not at all. It is not in the Church's power to say "definitively" that ANY particular person is in Hell. A cause can languish or be DOA for many reasons, none of which can be known with certainty in an individual's case. Some doubtless include: 1) The person IS in Hell (!). Such a case will obviously never "get far" in the process! 2) The person is in Purgatory (he or she is "saved," but has not yet attained Heaven). Such a person, obviously, is not quite the model of heroic virtue that people thought! Even though saved, such a person is not going to be canonized, since the heroic virtue requirement is evidently lacking as well as the role model aspect. God will not promote such a cause. 3) The person is in Heaven, but, for reasons known only to Him, God does not want to have the process result in canonization. Again, *unusually* worthy people are held-up for the emulation that comes with sainthood. Perhaps the person in question is in Heaven, and entered, as required, through the narrow gate, but put his or her feet in the same places that all of the saved do. 4) The human factor. God does not issue canonization decrees written in gold in the sky! If the people responsible for the cause don't do the work and research, a cause can easily lapse into obscurity. The person could easily be in Heaven and meet the requirements, but our Church Militant (here on earth) is composed of flesh-and-blood members; if they don't carry the ball, God will not force them. There are other factors, I'm sure, but these are a few obvious ones for why a canonization is hardly automatic.

Miracles associated with a beatification or canonization (the chief bone of contention on this thread) are meant to be the required evidence that the person in question is, in fact, in Heaven and lived a life of heroic virtue. The saint-to-be does NOT perform the miracle. He or she is asked to pray to God for the divine intervention necessary. If the miracle is shown to have come solely as an end-product of the petition to a particular Servant of God, that IS evidence that the person is in Heaven. Revelation 5:8 makes it clear enough that the saints in Heaven know our earthly trials and can offer prayers for them before the God whom they see before them, so the concept isn't difficult to grasp.

Benedict doubtless would like to see his friend canonized. But he can't just order it. The process must be fulfilled. He can waive the requirement for five years to go by before a cause is started, but the rest of the process must go through without his meddling. IF John Paul II is going to be canonized, it might happen during the pontificate of Benedict. It might not, and some future pope will "do the honors." It won't be Benedict's call as to when the requirements for the canonization will be fully met, if, indeed, they ever are.

I hope this helps!



203 posted on 01/31/2006 9:28:21 AM PST by magisterium
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