Vatican may have found late pope's 'miracle'

CNN ^ | January 30, 2006 | Philip Pullella

[NYer]

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) -- The Vatican may have found the "miracle" they need to put the late Pope John Paul II one step closer to sainthood -- the medically inexplicable healing of a French nun with the same Parkinson's disease that afflicted him.

Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the Catholic Church official in charge of promoting the cause to declare the late pope a saint of the Church, told Reuters on Monday that an investigation into the healing had cleared an initial probe by doctors.

Oder said the "relatively young" nun, whom he said he could not identify for now, was inexplicably cured of Parkinson's after praying to John Paul after his death last April 2.

"I was moved," Oder said in a telephone interview. "To think that this was the same illness that destroyed the Holy Father and it also kept this poor nun from carrying out her work."

John Paul suffered from Parkinson's Disease during the last decade of his life. His body trembled violently and he could not pronounce his words or control his facial muscles.

"To me, this is another sign of God's creativity," he said, adding that the nun worked with children.

He said Church investigators would now start a more formal and detailed probe of the suspected miracle cure.

The process that could lead to sainthood for John Paul began in May when Rome archdiocese published an edict asking Catholics to come forward with evidence "in favor or against" John Paul's reputation of holiness.

One proven miracle is required after John Paul's death for the cause to lead to beatification.

It must be the result of prayers asking the dead pope to intercede with God. Miracles are usually a physical healing that doctors are at a loss to explain.

Another miracle would be necessary between beatification and eventual sainthood.

[Rutles4Ever]

Men don't decide who is to be a saint.

But, boy, they sure get to decide who's saved and who isn't!

[Pyro7480]

I'll take your word for it. But I do have to say that you should make the effort to read about what the Catholic Church actually teaches and why, instead of holding to your particular caricature of the Church.

[Theoden]

I apologize if I overreact, but there's a lot of people on Free Republic, whose only joy comes from going on the Catholic threads, with the intention to attack, belittle, and start flame wars between various Christian groups. I have never seen you post before, and I grouped you in with them. Now I know not to. The Communion of Saints, at least as I have been taught, are those people who have led exemplary lives, and should serve as examples of how Christians should live, and glorify God. We can ask them to intercede for us directly to God through Christ and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. We do not pray to them, or worship them, and it is understood that the glorification of saints is not theirs, but truly belongs to God. "All glory and honor is yours almighty Father, for ever, and ever"

[netmilsmom]

>> I see the entertainment showed up early on this thread<<

LOL!
High five, spot on!

[Almondjoy]

I guess no more so than murder or abortion is to you.

If you want to pray to false idols I guess your right.. that's your business.

[Almondjoy]

The entertainment was here already hense why I posted.

[trebb]

Thank you for your kind and insightful reply. I love what the Catholic Church has accomplished and believe that it has brought more souls to God for Eternity than any other religious entity. I admit ignorance to all the intricacies of what is done and exactly why it is done. I tend to go with my gut and the Bible. Sometimes, I find that the interpretations of some specific areas of the Bible differ among religions and I can see where I, not being a theologian, might be a little amiss. Besides, there's nothing wrong in some lively discussion that forces us to examine our beliefs and to fortify the Truth in our lives. Some think I have it in for the Catholic Church, but that isn't the case at all; I enjoy examining my beliefs against the beliefs of others. Even where I disagree, I find that Grace through the Love of God as the Son of Man is not an arguable point among Christians. Here's to spreading God's Word in the hope that those who have not yet decided to give themselves to Him, via the Sacrifice of the Cross, hear what they need to hear in order to ensure their places in Eternity.

God Bless

[Thorin]

>>>>>If you want to pray to false idols I guess your right.. that's your business.

Yes, what Catholics do is indeed "our business." Which makes me wonder why you want to put your nose into it.

[topcat54]

Presumably this nun and others also prayer to Mary, et al on her behalf. How do they know it was the late pope that precipitated this "miracle"?

[Campion]

It assumes too much power and authority for mere mortals who should stick to glorifying God instead of trying to glorify men.

This is recognizing the work God has done in glorifying men, not gloryfying them on our own initiative. God glorifies the saints, we can only recognize his act in doing so.

[ksen]

This reads like the investigator has a vested interest in seeing that John Paul II is canonized. If that's the case then it should be no surprise that the "miracles" needed to confirm him as a saint WILL be found.

[ksen]

Were not praying to him. We're asking him to pray for us.

The story explicitly says the nun prayed to John Paul II.

[Deo volente]

"...I switched to a nondenominational church that uses the Bible as it's basis for the teachings that go on."



Did you know that the Catholic Church decided which books would form the New Testament that you use today? You can thank the Catholic Church for the Bible you use today. Are you not relying on the authority of the Church every time you pick up your Bible?


EXCERPT from Rev. Henry Graham's "Where We Got the Bible":
Now we know that the Gospels and Epistles of the New Testament were read aloud to the congregations of Christians that met on the first day of the week for Holy Mass (just as they are still among ourselves), one Gospel here, another there; one Epistle of St Paul in one place, another in another; all scattered about in various parts of the world where there were bodies of Christians. And the next question that naturally occurs to us is, when were these separate works gathered together so as to form a volume and added to the Old Testament to make up what we now call the Bible? Well, they were not collected for the best part of three hundred years. So that here again I am afraid is a hard nut for Protestants to crack, viz. — That though we admit that the separate works composing the New Testament were now in existence, yet they were for centuries not to be found altogether in one volume, were not obtainable by multitudes of Christians, and even were altogether unknown to many in different parts of the world. How then, could they possibly form a guide to Heaven and the chart of salvation for those who had never seen or read or known about them? It is a fact of history that the Council of Carthage, which was held in 397 A.D., mainly through the influence of St Augustine, settled the Canon or Collection of New Testament Scriptures as Catholics have them now and decreed that its decision should be sent on to Rome for confirmation. No Council (that is, no gathering of the Bishops of the Catholic Church for the settlement of some point of doctrine) was ever considered to be authoritative or binding unless it was approved and confirmed by the Roman Pontiff, while the decisions of every General Council that has received the approval of Rome are binding on the consciences of all Catholics. The Council of Carthage, then, is the first known to us in which we find a clear and undisputed catalogue of all the New Testament books as we have them in Bibles now.

http://catholicity.elcore.net/GrahamOnNewTestamentCanon.html

[marshmallow]

The article also says this:

It (the miracle) must be the result of prayers asking the dead pope to intercede with God. Miracles are usually a physical healing that doctors are at a loss to explain.

Which is exactly what I said in my previous post.

Also, when CNN says "the nun prayed to John Paul II", one needs to keep in mind that theological exactitude may not necessarily be conveyed by their choice of words.

To summarize, the nun's prayers to JPII were asking his intercession (i.e. prayer) before God on her behalf. It's the same as if I asked you to pray for me. I'm asking you to intercede before God on my behalf.

[NYer]

The story explicitly says the nun prayed to John Paul II.

The reporter phrased it that way.

As you well know, from all the years of discussion here at FR, catholics do not pray to dead people. They ask those who have exemplified a holy life, to intervene on their behalf. In this particular situation, she asked, and it would seem he placed her request before our Lord.

[VeritatisSplendor]

The story explicitly says the nun prayed to John Paul II.

Well, that's how Reuters puts it.

Mrs VS

[VeritatisSplendor]

Presumably this nun and others also prayer to Mary, et al on her behalf. How do they know it was the late pope that precipitated this "miracle"?

As I understand it, for a miracle to be credited to a saint (that is, a miracle by God in response to a saint's intercession) the petitioners must testify that they asked for that saint only to intercede, no others. Which apparently means telling your family and friends who might be praying for you - "John Paul only, don't ask the Blessed Mother, don't ask any one else." And I think it means not even asking God directly, but only through the saint's intercession.

I don't think I could limit myself that much; I'd be calling on all the big guns and everyone I loved who I believed was in heaven, and of course directly God, and I'd be asking people on earth to be praying to God, and since a lot of them would be Protestants...

Mrs Vs

[trebb]

Are you not relying on the authority of the Church every time you pick up your Bible?

Divine inspiration comes in many forms and is not limited to members of the Catholic Church. If a baker becomes divinely inspired and does great deeds that are useful to God, it doesn't necessarily follow that we need to go the bakers for our spiritual guidance.

I am not all about attacking the Catholic Church (follow the rest of my posts prior to this one), but I do like to see people think their way through as they concentrate on their beliefs and argue them. I merely point out that the fact that an argument sounds good, doesn't make it definitive.

God Bless you and those that compiled the New Testament.

[Rutles4Ever]

If you want to pray to false idols I guess your right.. that's your business.

You mean like that book you worship?

[ksen]

To summarize, the nun's prayers to JPII were asking his intercession (i.e. prayer) before God on her behalf. It's the same as if I asked you to pray for me. I'm asking you to intercede before God on my behalf.

Just because her prayers were for intercession does not negate the fact that she was praying to JPII, which you seem to agree with in the highlighted text above. Therefore I'm not sure why you chastised that other poster for: 1) quoting the story, and 2) for posting something you ultimately agree with, that the nun prayed to JPII.