Posted on 01/25/2006 1:25:12 PM PST by xzins
III. THE FREE-WILL OF MAN
This is my opinion concerning the free-will of man: In his primitive condition as he came out of the hands of his creator, man was endowed with such a portion of knowledge, holiness and power, as enabled him to understand, esteem, consider, will, and to perform the true good, according to the commandment delivered to him. Yet none of these acts could he do, except through the assistance of Divine Grace.
But in his lapsed and sinful state, man is not capable, of and by himself, either to think, to will, or to do that which is really good; but it is necessary for him to be regenerated and renewed in his intellect, affections or will, and in all his powers, by God in Christ through the Holy Spirit, that he may be qualified rightly to understand, esteem, consider, will, and perform whatever is truly good.
When he is made a partaker of this regeneration or renovation, I consider that, since he is delivered from sin, he is capable of thinking, willing and doing that which is good, but yet not without the continued aids of Divine Grace.
No, acceptance is active; receiving is passive.
Therein lies the difference, articulated by the Reformation itself.
I didn't understand Boettner's comment that Arminians can't have infants saved.
Yes, I think you're missing his point. His point is that Arminians say salvation is only accomplished by an "act of free will," by an "acceptance" of grace, by a "right choice" to believe, by a "cooperation" with the Holy Spirit -- NONE of which infants are capable of doing.
So logically, by the definition of salvation Arminians set up, no infant can or will be saved.
Calvinists say that men, women, children and newborn infants are made elect in exactly the same way -- through nothing in themselves, through the predetermining will of God alone.
That's what Boettner is saying when he echoes all the Reformers and Paul and John and Augustine.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Why lay claim to something Paul specifically tells us is not our doing?
Saved by grace alone.
Arminius says the same.
I, on the hand, am certain of Jesus' teaching in Jn 9 about those who don't see.
Therefore, I'm saying that the legal situation is different for an infant than it is for you and I.
I need an explanation. I'm not the brightest bulb in the light store. Help me out here, Zeeba.
Ooooppppssss! I stand corrected mainly on a technical foul. Only elected infants are regenerated. However that goes back to my old question that I asked that no one has answered. Would you say ANYONE who is NOT elected will go to heaven? I suspect not which would put you in agreement with the Confession.
Not one of your verse mean anything. There is NOT ONE unelected person in heaven be in man, woman or child so it renders nothing invalid.
I see a lot of posts primarily from the New Testament about children but let's not forget other Biblical examples of God's sovereignty over children:
Deu 2:34 "So we captured all his cities at that time and utterly destroyed the men, women and children of every city. We left no survivor.
Deu 31:12 "Assemble the people, the men and the women and children and the alien who is in your town, so that they may hear and learn and fear the LORD your God, and be careful to observe all the words of this law.
Job 21:7-15 "Why do the wicked still live, Continue on, also become very powerful? Their descendants are established with them in their sight, And their offspring before their eyes, Their houses are safe from fear, And the rod of God is not on them. His ox mates without fail; His cow calves and does not abort. They send forth their little ones like the flock, And their children skip about. They sing to the timbrel and harp And rejoice at the sound of the flute. They spend their days in prosperity, And suddenly they go down to Sheol. They say to God, 'Depart from us! We do not even desire the knowledge of Your ways. 'Who is the Almighty, that we should serve Him, And what would we gain if we entreat Him?'
Eze 9:5-6 But to the others He said in my hearing, "Go through the city after him and strike; do not let your eye have pity and do not spare. Utterly slay old men, young men, maidens, little children, and women, but do not touch any man on whom is the mark; and you shall start from My sanctuary." So they started with the elders who were before the temple.
Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being My priest. Since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.
Mat 11:16 "But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children,
1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.
2Co 12:14 Here for this third time I am ready to come to you, and I will not be a burden to you; for I do not seek what is yours, but you; for children are not responsible to save up for their parents, but parents for their children.
I would recommend the Strong Concordance which will show you where similar words are used throughout scripture. This is most helpful to compare how the same word is used in multiple places. Also there are some excellent websites which will help you in studying such as http://www.blueletterbible.org/ (excellent) and http://www.biblegateway.com/ among others. These will not only provide you with the Greek translation but will provide you with a wealth of information.
Other tools you may consider is eSword. Many of us use eSword in which we cut and paste our scriptural jabs at one another.
A website I would also recommend http://www.monergism.com/ which provides a wealth of information on the Reformed faith and why everyone else here is wrong. :O)
Please note the Commentary section of the main page. You'll find a number of excellent commentaries including Calvin, Matthew Henry, John Gills and others. These often help in the Greek translation (especially Calvin). Also you'll find many excellent documents on the creeds and documents of the church. Early church father writings can be found as well.
Finally I have found as an excellent source www.newadvent.com. This is a Catholic website and, while bias to Catholic tradition (they don't have nice things to say about Luther), tends to be very informative on the Catholic faith. I have used newadvent extensively when trying to show our Catholic brethren the errors of their ways. :O)
Hope this helps.
This is something that you have probably read a million times and never caught.
"For the mystery of iniquity [sin} doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [The sin is destroyed; not the man. Notice the man is taken out of the way to reveal the wickedness.} Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [What Lie?} That they all might be damned who believed not the truth. but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2nd Thessalonians 2: 7-12)
"But the natural man [still being carnal-minded; this is both you and me} receives not the things of the SPIRIT of God:" neither CAN HE know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (I Cor. 2:12-14).
"Because the carnal mind is enmity [hatred} against God: for it is NOT subject to the [spiritual] law of God, neither indeed CAN BE" (Rom. 8:7).
"No man CAN come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw [Gk: 'drag'] him: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:44).
This verse is plain: "No man CAN..." come to Christ of his own will. It is the Father "dragging" him that is the cause of one coming to Christ, not his own supposed free will.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that [that faith] not of yourselves [NOT of your own faith or will] it is the gift of God. Not of works, [There is nothing that we can physically do to bring us salvation} lest any man should boast. For we are HIS workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:8-10).
"For it is God [who? 'GOD] which works in you both TO WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2: 13).
"God our Savior; Who WILL have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."(1 Tim. 2:4)
Ec 1: 13(KJV) And 1 gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.
Now look at the last part of this verse as it's translated in the Concordant Old Testament
"It is an experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it"
"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man hath become as one of us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he should put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:" Gen 3:22
It wasn't time for us to eat of the tree of life in the day of Adam and Eve. The earth needed to be populated and grown into an image of Heaven. That has not been accomplished. Neither has the conversion of man's soul into the image of God. We have to have an experience of Evil before can come to understand righteousness.
2co 4:3-4 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Who is the God of this world? We are.
I didn't know eSword was out there, but now knowing that it is, the seemingly endless supply of Scripture in an instant makes sense to me. Sometimes the Scriptural quotes are excellent, especially from the OT, and especially from Isaiah. In any event I'm no debater, so it's unlikely I'll be jabbing.
Anyway, thanks for the links.
As unbelievable as this may seem to some of the folks here, I never form conclusions until I'm certain about something. And even then I've been known to be wrong. But I must be shown by clear reasoning of the scriptures.
Augustine - A Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints
Pagans in Africa who have never heard the gospel have never had a "first" chance. So yes, I believe that scripture teaches that those who have never been given the opportunity to hear the gospel will be given the opportunity.
"And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation." (Heb. 9)
If this means what you think it does, then there are some contradictions you need to explain. For example, the bible clearly says there is a "second" death:
Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Scripture says what this second death is:
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Further, the bible has examples where men actually died more than once:
Joh 12:17 The people therefore that was with him when he called Lazarus out of his grave, and raised him from the dead, bare record.
Lazarus didn't live forever physically. He did die another physical death.
There are numerous examples in scripture of people dying and then being resurrected physically. These people all died again.
I think I do too. Though I think that's much easier sometimes on the negative side of certainty, than it is on the positive.
Wonderful quote by Augustine. Absolutely wonderful!
"Continue in prayer, and watch in the same in giving of thanks. Withal praying also for us that God would open unto us the door of His word, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which also I am in bonds, that I may so make it manifest as I ought to speak." [Col. 4.2 ff.]
This so moved me. I love St. Paul. He was a great, great human shepherd. He understood the hunger of the Faithful, their weakness and those things which had the potential to trip them up, but he had faith in their perseverance. He loved them, that's why he could pen Corinthians I:13. Did you ever stop to think about how he systematically called out all of Love's stumblingblocks? He was forceful, he was masculine, he was relentless. St. Paul can easily bring me to tears.
No he wasn't. You're just reading what you want to see into his comments.
MacArthur wrote The Signs of Christ's Coming"
In this paper, MacArthur says concerning the kingdom of God:
c) The worldwide teaching of the gospel
In Matthew 24:14 Christ says, "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." Before the end of the age, the gospel will be preached worldwide. Now that couldn't apply to the time before A.D. 70. Even today there are many places in the world where the gospel has not been preached. But there is coming a day when the gospel will be preached all over the world.
How will the gospel be preached to the whole world? Jesus wasn't talking about a slow, gradual process whereby the gospel would eventually reach the whole world. At the end of the age, the gospel message will spread throughout the world by some supernatural, instantaneous means. Everyone on the face of the earth will hear it.
So, no, MacArthur doen't believe the kingdom of God will occur over a long, slow gradual period of time.
It would be interesting to know the dates of each of MacArthur's comments.
People slowly progress, just like the spread of the Gospel.
"People slowly progress,"
What I have found from experience is that the older you get the faster you slowly progress.
Amen. As God changed Paul, "chief among sinners," into a "prisoner of Jesus Christ," so may He transform our hearts.
Rotflol!
Me, too!
Albion....
Lawhead???
LOL. I just read a paper on that. It has to do with our metabolism slowing down as we get older, which in turn makes time seem to speed ahead.
Relativity-wise.
So the secret to slowing down the perception of time as we age is to increase our metabolism.
Once again everything ends up with "get off your butt and boogie."
"So the secret to slowing down the perception of time as we age is to increase our metabolism. Once again everything ends up with "get off your butt and boogie."
Or eat hot Mexican food with lots of jalapeno peppers, but then again, that causes you to "get off your butt and boogie."
Jalapeno Pepper Jelly
Enjoy this with crackers and soft cream cheese."
Original recipe yield: 6 small jars.
Servings:12 (change)
INGREDIENTS:
3 green bell pepper, minced
2 (4 ounce) cans diced jalapeno peppers
1 1/2 cups distilled white vinegar
6 1/2 cups white sugar
1/2 teaspoon cayenne pepper
1 (6 fluid ounce) container liquid pectin
5 drops green food coloring
DIRECTIONS:
In a large, stainless steel saucepan, combine peppers, vinegar, sugar, and cayenne pepper. Cook over medium high heat. Stir frequently until mixture begins to boil.
Stir in pectin; boil 5 minutes longer, stirring constantly, and mix in food coloring. Skim off foam, and remove from heat.
Ladle into sterilized jars. Seal, and process in a boiling-water canner for 5 minutes.
It's just not that simple. Is the law of God written on the hearts of all men? And does that law convict all men of their sins?
The salvation of the bushman or imbeciles or infants is simply speculation.
Scripture tells us the elect, by the grace of God, go to heaven according to His decree from before the foundation of the world.
Elect infants and elect bushmen will go to heaven, just like the rest of of God's children as part of His election. By the will of God alone.
Paul warned against unwarranted speculation into the mind of God. There are some questions for which we do not have clear answers.
But children of believing parents are saved because they are members of God's Convenant family. That much we know, which should encourage all parents to raise their children up to kneel to none but Christ.
"For we know that when we have exceeded the limits of the word, we shall get into a devious and irksome course, in which errors, slips, and falls will be inevitable...Nor let us be ashamed to be ignorant of some things relative to a subject in which there is a kind of learned ignorance." -- John Calvin
Amen, Dr. E!
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