[kosta50]

You may wish to read Augustine's A Treatise on Predestination. Kosta doesn't hold Augustine in high regard so it's understandable that he won't accept what Augustine has to say

Kosta holds Blessed Augustine to be one of the Saints and Fathers of the Church who, like many others, hypothesized on a variety of issues that the undivided Church of the first millennium did not universally accept.

The Orthodox East became fully familiar with his works only very late (15th century or so) and then accepted some of his writings as fully orthodox and others as contrary to what the undivided Church taught all along, and what the Orthodox Church continues to hold unchanged.

The Roman Catholics, likewise, rely on more than one single source of religious opinion, unlike the Protestants, who almost, if not actually take +Augustine as inspired and faultless (relying on doctrines of men, ey?)

Both sides of the Church allow religious speculation but only that which is known and in line with Scriptures en toto can be considered faith. Faith is not an opinion, lest if become relativism (i.e. individual interpretation of the Bible), one of many Protestant errors.

[jo kus]

The Orthodox East became fully familiar with his works only very late (15th century or so) and then accepted some of his writings as fully orthodox and others as contrary to what the undivided Church taught all along, and what the Orthodox Church continues to hold unchanged. The Roman Catholics, likewise, rely on more than one single source of religious opinion, unlike the Protestants, who almost, if not actually take +Augustine as inspired and faultless (relying on doctrines of men, ey?)

What is interesting is that some people only take PART of St. Augustine's writings, ignoring the rest. St. Augustine had a lot to say about predestination, and it certainly is not what our Protestant brothers are projecting. Would a "proto-Calvinist" say "He who made you without your own self will NOT justify you WITHOUT YOURSELF"? (St. Augustine, Sermon 169). What is even more ironic is what St. Augustine says on OTHER subjects, such as on the Pope, the Eucharist, the sacraments, the saints in heaven, Mary, and so forth. You'd think St. Augustine was Catholic! If St. Augustine is a "source" on predestination, why do some totally ignore his agreeing with the practically universal idea of the real presence in the Eucharist? Doesn't it sound like some people have their minds made up on theology and are just looking for support of their theories? Wouldn't it be better to explore what was believed in actuality, rather than finding a scattered quote twisted out of context?

Regards

[HarleyD]

"unlike the Protestants, who almost, if not actually take +Augustine as inspired and faultless"

You will find precious few Protestants who have read the works of any church father-much like the Catholics and Orthodox. (I never did until a few years ago.) Nor will you find the ones who have read Augustine (including myself) to consider his writings "inspired and faultless".

The difference is simply that Orthodox and Catholic have others who read these works and tells them what to believe. Protestants read these works (hopefully) and make up their own minds. Protestants believe the Holy Spirit will lead people to all truths.