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To: kosta50; P-Marlowe; zeeba neighba; HarleyD; Forest Keeper
...then "planted" a serpent to tempt him

Who do you think "planted" the serpent? Johnny Appleseed?

...knowing exactly that man will fail

Do you think God did not know Adam and Eve would succumb to the serpent? Thus the fall of the entire human race was a surprise to God?

"Oops," says God, sovereign Creator of heaven and earth. "I sure didn't see that one coming."

868 posted on 01/09/2006 10:05:52 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (an ambassador in bonds)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; kosta50; P-Marlowe; zeeba neighba; HarleyD; Forest Keeper
It certainly seems as if the Orthodox here do not believe in an omniscient or omnipotent God. If God is omniscient, then nothing surprises him. If God is omnipotent, then nothing can happen which he did not either actively or passively ordain.

Yet the Orthodox seem to believe that God did not plan the fall. That somehow God was surprised that Adam would sin. But since Christ is the lamb slain before the foundation of the earth, it is clear that God's plan of salvation was put into effect eons before man was ever placed in the garden.

It's funny but every time I get into a discussion with Catholics -- and particularly with Orthodox -- I am numbered among the Calvinists. I think it is because I accept the absolute authority of scripture. You and I may have some disagreements over exactly what is meant by the scripture, but when push comes to shove, both Calvinists and Protestant Arminians accept the absolute inerrant authority of scripture, so at least we have a common reference point for discussion. When we get into arguments with those who put tradition on an equal footing with scripture, then pinning someone down on theology is like (as Harley put it) nailing Jello to a wall.

When discussing theology with Catholics it does appear that I may actually be "Calvinist in the Arminian Tradition". (Actually my principle disagreement with the WCF is over the meaning of one single passage. It is not what the WCF asserts that I disagree with, but with what it denies. But that is for another thread).

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Marlowe

870 posted on 01/09/2006 10:22:14 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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