Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: annalex
To your both 8234 and 8236 have not been born again "Born again" is "baptized". Read the entire discourse with Nicodemus in John 3.

Born again is not being baptized (at least not with water).

Christ speaks of two births, one from water (flesh) and then one spiritual(vs.6)

Regarding Matthew 25:14-30, David Cloud writes What he writes is incomprehensible nonsense not related to Matthew 25.

No, it is very clear.

Matthew 25 has nothing to do with any Christian, it is related to Jews.

The man who thought Christ was a 'hard man' was an unbeliever, who did not know Christ.

All Jews were regarded as servants of God since God had created that nation for Himself.

you have never read the Pauline Epistles The Pauline epistles teach the very same thing: salvation is by grace through faith sustained by good works. No part of the New Testament cotradicts another. If you believe that St. Paul contradicts St. Matthew, or St. James, then you do not understand St. Paul. For example, Ephesians 2 indeed explains that salvation comes by grace through faith, but it also calls us to "walk good works" while avoiding pridefulness. This is a perfectly Catholic thing that St. Paul is saying there. It would also be useful for you to read therest of the letter, and find, for example, that we are to "walk worthy of the vocation in which you are called", "kind one to another; merciful, forgiving one another", "walk in love", -- just like the Church teaches.

Nothing you cited states that good works substain salvation.

Salvation is never substained by anything but God Himself (Eph.4:30, Jude 24, Rom.8:38-39).

You continue to say None of those exhortations to charity have anything to do with ones salvation, and that is the point that Paul is making by saying that works have nothing to do with salvation, they have to do with showing ones salvation This is not contained in the epistles. Work for reward and work mandated by law is explained to be not salvific; but work of charity is exhorted as salvific. If St. Paul meant to sweep up all the works as unrelated to justification he would not habitually segue into such exhortations in every letter right after he speaks of lack of salvific merit in works of reward and law. For example, St. Paul calls for virtuous life in Ephesians 5:1-4, then concludes "understand, that no fornicator, or unclean, or covetous person (which is a serving of idols), hath inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." Seems that works of purity and marital duty are exactly that, salvific.

Note the word inheritance, that has to do with rewards.

Good works are a result of salvation, they result in eternal rewards but never can keep one saved or get one saved (Acts.15)

they are goats because they did not believe and they show that they unbelievers by their lack of good works. What prevented Christ from saying so, if that is the case? What about the preceding parable in Matthew 25, where it is shown that it is what you do with your talent of faith, not the possession of it, that counts for salvation.

And where do you read that the talents have to do with faith?

Does Christ say that it does?

In Matthew 18:24 a talent is described a being money, not faith.

That it is faith is an assumption you want to make.

But the Lord said in Matthew 7:17 that a tree is known by its fruit, not that the fruit has anything to do with substaining either roots or the tree.

8,346 posted on 06/10/2006 10:44:10 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8253 | View Replies ]


To: fortheDeclaration
Christ speaks of two births, one from water (flesh) and then one spiritual(vs.6)

The notion that "water" is a reference to womb or flesh is ridiculous. The second birth spoken about in John 3 is very clearly baptism, birth by water and spirit, which is juxtaposed by birth by womb or flesh.

Matthew 25 has nothing to do with any Christian, it is related to Jews.

Based on what scripture? Christ teaches works of charity throughout the gospel and concludes in Matthew 25 by a lesson on how some will be saved and others will perish.

Nothing you cited states that good works substain salvation.

Because I did not say that. Good works are how we are judged and they sustain faith (Luke 17:5-10). Yes, all works we do is what Christ does through us -- I never argued otherwise.

Good works are a result of salvation, they result in eternal rewards but never can keep one saved or get one saved (Acts.15)

Acts 15 talks about circumcision, -- works of law rather than works of charity. Salvation comes at the end, so works we do in life cannot be a result of it. Good works are a result of faith, and a product of grace working in us; but they also sustain and grow our faith (Luke 17 and any Paul's letter again).

That [talents] is faith is an assumption you want to make.

No, it is right in the scripture. The servants that increased the money given them are called faithful.

8,400 posted on 06/12/2006 12:22:28 PM PDT by annalex
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8346 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson