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To: Forest Keeper
So unscriptural tradition teaches that there is a threshhold of importance that must be crossed in order for God to hear our prayer?

Not really, but some people feel moved to pray to a saint in some circumstances. This is how prayer to saints enriches, rather than curtails, our prayer life.

dead person

Here is that stupid canard again. Are angels dead? Christ said that men who undergo physical death are like angels and have everlasting life (Matthew 22:30-32). Moreover, a prayer to saints is a prayer to Christ, -- it was explained to you time and time again.

8,302 posted on 06/09/2006 4:23:17 PM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex; kosta50
[On FK's reference to a Canonized saint as being a "dead person":] Are angels dead? Christ said that men who undergo physical death are like angels and have everlasting life (Matthew 22:30-32). Moreover, a prayer to saints is a prayer to Christ, -- it was explained to you time and time again.

I disagree with your interpretation of this passage. Let's look at it:

Matt. 22:30-32 : 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

Clearly the reference to angels had to do with marriage only. We will not be married as angels are not. Secondly, you are blurring the well established distinction between "living" and "dead" found in many places throughout the Bible, and especially here. Jesus is clearly referring to spiritual life and death. As Kosta has said and I have agreed, the soul is going to be "alive" regardless of whether it winds up in heaven or hell, so there is no distinction to be made about whether a deceased person is "alive" for these purposes. Before the final resurrection, the body is "dead" and the soul is "alive" regardless.

So, I feel that I am correct (today) in referring to anyone who is physically deceased as a "dead person". The reason I make note of it is because it is absolutely incontrovertible among all Christians that it is correct to pray for other people who are physically alive, and wrong to pray TO people who are physically alive. However, there is great disagreement among all Christians as to whether it is proper to pray either FOR or TO people who are not physically alive.

Finally, I would agree that attempts have been made here to explain to me that a prayer to a saint was really a prayer to Christ THROUGH the saint, or a petition to the saint to make another prayer to Christ on our behalf. YOU were kind enough to explain to me that this was a FALSE notion. :) YOU have recently been telling me that Christ cannot be bothered with trivial matters and that for actual action, it can be better to just go directly to a saint with expertise in the area of need. (You have explained to me that this is done in order to not take the Lord's name in vain.) Therefore, I claim that you are contradicting yourself when you say that a prayer to a saint is a prayer to Christ, especially on the lesser issues.

8,871 posted on 06/23/2006 12:43:36 AM PDT by Forest Keeper
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