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To: conservonator
The Christian is not 'being' saved, he is saved (Eph.4:30) We have been saved, are being saved and hope to be saved. Paul likens it to a race, and as you know, a race isn't over until you cross the tape. The tape is our judgment. Why pray for perseverance if salvation can't be lost?

Now if you are saved, then you cannot lost that salvation (Eph.4:30).

The race being run has to do with rewards not salvation. (1Cor.9:24-26)

The final glorification has to do with our receiving our resurrection Body, not salvation (Rom.8).

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life (1Jn.5:13)

8,240 posted on 06/08/2006 5:35:29 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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To: fortheDeclaration; conservonator
Now if you are saved, then you cannot lost that salvation (Eph.4:30).

"Do not grieve the Holy Spirit" Why not? We can't loose our salvation anyways...

The race being run has to do with rewards not salvation. (1Cor.9:24-26)

LOL!!! Read the next verse. As usual, you have to cut and paste Scriptures to get it to say your heretical views of the Word of God.

"I keep my body under, and bring [it] into subjection, lest preaching to others, I myself should become reprobate" 1 Cor 9:27

Other translations say "become disqualified". In either case, "there's no soup for you!" You don't get a prize for being disqualified or reprobate!

The final glorification has to do with our receiving our resurrection Body, not salvation (Rom.8).

Too many verses to prove this wrong.

"For if ye live according to the flesh, ye shall die [yes, you too, Christians who have been 'saved']; but if through the Spirit ye mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live" Romans 8:13

we are sons of God, and if sons, also heirs certainly of God and joint-heirs with Christ, if so be that we suffer with [him] that we may be also glorified together [with him]." Romans 8:17

"with the hope that the same creatures shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the sons of God" Romans 8:21 HOPE!

"For in hope we are saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for what a man sees, he does not wait for Romans 8:24 Wow. FAITH ALONE DOESN'T SAVE! We are also saved by hope!

Well, that's enough for now, I don't have time to go through every verse in Romans 8, but you should be able to see that eternal salvation is not a done-deal. Our salvation from sin has only begun.

Regards

8,251 posted on 06/08/2006 6:31:53 PM PDT by jo kus (There is nothing colder than a Christian who doesn't care for the salvation of others - St.Crysostom)
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To: fortheDeclaration
Now if you are saved, then you cannot lost that salvation (Eph.4:30).

What exactly do you think that means? If we go a little further in Ephesians we learn that we are to do and not to do certain things as a baptized or regenerated man. Our baptism gives us the capacity to act with the grace made available to us through that first and glorious sacrament. To not grieve the Holy Spirit is to turn away from that saving grace He offers us in His love: IOW to cast off our salvation, to lose it. A gift given can be refused.

The race being run has to do with rewards not salvation. (1Cor.9:24-26)

What is the one reward that Paul preaches about? Gold? material wealth? power? Of course not, His only mission was to spread the good news of salvation, that is the only reward that matters. Also, if we read a bit further in to Paul's letter, we see that he writes in verse 27 of the same book and chapter: "No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that , after having preached ot others, I myself should be disqualified".

The final glorification has to do with our receiving our resurrection Body, not salvation (Rom.8).

We don't hope for what is assured, do we.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life (1Jn.5:13)

Belief surpasses mere intellectual ascent, the belief that John writes is dynamic, transcendent and not easy to attain, many are called, few are chosen.

8,265 posted on 06/08/2006 9:36:34 PM PDT by conservonator (Pray for those suffering)
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To: fortheDeclaration; Agrarian; annalex; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; jo kus; conservonator
The race being run has to do with rewards not salvation. (1Cor.9:24-26)

What race is he talking about? If one already has the prize of salvation, who's competing? You know +Paul says a lot of strange strings, such as

"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places" (Eph 6:12)

Our struggle is not agianst flesh and blood? Our carnal nature?

But against the powers and rulers, world forces of this darkness? Which specific darkness is he talking about?

Then he jumps to "spiritual forces" of wickedness in heavenly places.

So, we are not really resisitng our carnal nature, but dark forces of the world (I presume he's talking about the earth), and wicked spirits in!?

First, he is painting a picture suggestive of dualism, rather than personal theosis, and then he reveals that there are — wicked spirits in heavenly places.

This sure sounds Gnostic to me, especially the last part.

8,273 posted on 06/09/2006 4:51:23 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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