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To: annalex; kosta50; jo kus; 1000 silverlings
Sola Scriptura does not advocate individual interpretation? Whose interpretations were these that you have advocated on this thread all along? They sure were not apostolic. Let me ask a direct question: what to you think 2 Timothy say about the scripture?

The best interpreter of the Bible is the Bible itself, through the Holy Spirit. It is no wonder that you see these as individual interpretations because the Bible interpreting itself so strongly disagrees with Catholic interpretation. In addition, your impersonal view of the Holy Spirit says that He does not lead His children personally in scripture, He only leads a small handful of very powerful men.

And yes, Protestant views can be different. The Spirit reveals only the truth and men appropriate it to varying degrees. Sanctification improves the correctness of the apprehension of the Spirit's revelations. Christians grow in their faiths and are able to accept higher understandings.

I think the passage in 2 Tim. means that all scripture, what is now called the OT and NT, is God's inspired word, down to the last jot and tittle. It is perfect and inerrant. Within only its pages are contained absolutely everything that any Christian could possibly need to know to be exactly the kind of Christian God wishes us to be. Nothing else is necessary for Christians to be completely and utterly equipped and complete.

7,841 posted on 06/05/2006 11:08:19 PM PDT by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; annalex; kosta50; 1000 silverlings
The best interpreter of the Bible is the Bible itself, through the Holy Spirit. It is no wonder that you see these as individual interpretations because the Bible interpreting itself so strongly disagrees with Catholic interpretation. In addition, your impersonal view of the Holy Spirit says that He does not lead His children personally in scripture, He only leads a small handful of very powerful men

The Spirit leads each person individually, only? You sure? It seems to me that the Spirit leads the entire Church as one "man", not as an independent body of believers. This concept is totally foreign to Scripture. The problem here is that you are inserting the American ideals of democracy into the Bible - rugged individualism. The idea that the Bible interprets itself is also foreign to Scriptures. It doesn't contradict itself, but it certainly doesn't interpret itself. Reading the OT itself without the mind of the Church will NOT yield that Jesus Christ is the Messiah - it actually denies it in the literal sense:

"And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged [is] accursed of God;)" Deut 21:22-23

This is a huge reason why so many Jews didn't convert. They were Sola Scriptura Jews who read only the literal sense of Scriptures, not seeing Christ in the many prophesies.

Protestant views can be different. The Spirit reveals only the truth and men appropriate it to varying degrees. Sanctification improves the correctness of the apprehension of the Spirit's revelations. Christians grow in their faiths and are able to accept higher understandings.

The problem with this "system" is that one never knows the truth...

I think the passage in 2 Tim. means that all scripture, what is now called the OT and NT, is God's inspired word

I think you are reading what is not there. 2 Timothy was written before other NT books. You have made a giant presumptuitive leap.

Within only its pages are contained absolutely everything that any Christian could possibly need to know to be exactly the kind of Christian God wishes us to be

It doesn't say that. You destroy your own concept of Sola Scriptura!!! It's a far cry from "Scripture is USEFUL" to "Scripture is absolutely EVERYTHING"

Nothing else is necessary for Christians to be completely and utterly equipped and complete.

You should read the Scriptures more often. Eph 4:11-13 gives us another "thing" that "utterly equips and perfects the Christian", and it isn't the Bible. If you are serious about the Written Word of God, you would take it ALL into account, not whatever you feel like.

Regards

7,863 posted on 06/06/2006 5:58:24 AM PDT by jo kus (There is nothing colder than a Christian who doesn't care for the salvation of others - St.Crysostom)
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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50; jo kus; 1000 silverlings
The best interpreter of the Bible is the Bible itself, through the Holy Spirit [...] the Bible interpreting itself so strongly disagrees with Catholic interpretation. In addition, your impersonal view of the Holy Spirit says that He does not lead His children personally in scripture [...]

Both Kosta in 7854, and Jo in 7863 thouroughly refuted this on its merits: the Spirit cannot lead in opposite directions and we have mutually contrasting interpretations of the scripture. The scripture does not support the notion that the Holy Spirit operates outside of the Church, -- please review the posts 216 and on, 661, 790, 1395. Touching on our own conversation just recently, you would interpret the english word "brother" to mean exclusive of any other meaning in Greek or Aramaic as "blood brother"; but you would have me beleive that "water" in John 3:5 means "womb". This is just one example of the arrogant vanity of Sola Scriptura superstitionists.

I think the passage in 2 Tim. means that [w]ithin only [OT and NT] are contained absolutely everything that any Christian could possibly need to know to be exactly the kind of Christian God wishes us to be. Nothing else is necessary for Christians to be completely and utterly equipped and complete.

Then you don't read what is written and follow your own superstitions. The preceding verses in 2 Timothy mention oral teaching, and the verses 16-17 themselves speak of the scripture as profitable, but not sufficient for the formation of an ideal cleric. It speaks nothing of the laity, and the interpretation that it refers to the entire canon is voluntaristic. I happen to agree that it may be read as referring to the NT as well, and I certainly agree that the New Testament is "profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice", but even to make this expansive reading you need to go beyond what is written. The reference to the completeness of Timothy's formation through scripture, as Jo remarked, cannot mean that it consists of nothing but scripture because Ephesians 4:11-13 mentions the body of men (very powerful men, I might add) as responsible for the same perfect formation.

7,904 posted on 06/06/2006 2:24:44 PM PDT by annalex
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