[HarleyD]

There certainly IS a tradition that Mary was sinless.

I'm not saying a tradition that Mary was sinless. I'm talking about the Immaculate Conception. New Advent states:

In the Constitution Ineffabilis Deus of 8 December, 1854, Pius IX pronounced and defined that the Blessed Virgin Mary "in the first instance of her conception, by a singular privilege and grace granted by God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race, was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin."

The Orthodox do not believe in original sin, thus there is no reason Mary needed to be "preserved". She simply didn't sin.

Now if this decree comes from "the chair of Peter", as it does, and if any ruling from the chair is infalible, then how can it be wrong? It means that original sin infects mankind and Mary was preserved from it. That's the "infalible" teaching from the Church. It also means that the Orthodox are wrong in their teaching of original sin which they claim tradition support their view.

BTW-While reading about the Immaculate Conception, it is interesting that the original Feast of the Immaculate Conception did not talk about Mary's sinlessness-only honor her for carrying our Lord.

[jo kus]

Now if this decree comes from "the chair of Peter", as it does, and if any ruling from the chair is infalible, then how can it be wrong? It means that original sin infects mankind and Mary was preserved from it. That's the "infalible" teaching from the Church. It also means that the Orthodox are wrong in their teaching of original sin which they claim tradition support their view.

As I have said before, this is the Latin Catholic view of Tradition, their own tradition. As you point out, the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is infallibly declared. But the Orthodox are not bound to this decision, since they are not part of the Latin Catholic Church. Thus, when you say they are wrong, that is like comparing apples and oranges. We have infallibly declared OUR Tradition. We don't answer for the Orthodox or their tradition or beliefs. It is clear that our Churches have taken different interpretative paths on some issues. That doesn't make either wrong when we say Mary was conceived sinless, and the Orthodox say she never sinned. As Kolo said, a Great Council would reconcile our positions and reaffirm our respective Traditions, which have gone in different directions in the last 1000 years.

Part of why we call Mary sinless has to do with very ancient writings - St. Justin, St. Ireneaus and Tertullian (c.150-220 AD) all wrote about Mary as the Second Eve. The Church also saw Mary as the New Ark of the Covenant, a pure vessel for carrying the Bread of Life, the New Law, and the High Priest, just as the original Ark carried the symbols of the reality of Jesus Christ. The idea that Mary was sinless is NOT a "new" concept in the Church.

Regards