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To: blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; HarleyD; P-Marlowe; George W. Bush; fortheDeclaration
The plain meaning of the three references (1 Timothy 3:2, 1 Timothy 3:12 and Titus 1:6) is that one of the requirements for Pastor or Deacon is that they be married to a real live woman and have a family so they know how to lead a family, the local body given to them to lead by Jesus

I agree, that is the plain meaning, but it still needs to be harmonized with 1 Corinthians 7:32-40, -- which you don't dispute calls for celibacy. It also needs to be understiood in the context of church primarily filled with adult converts. Obviously, if a celibate man, otherwise qualified, were to approach the church wishing to become a priest, the verses in Timothy and Titus would not be an impediment. This is why most Christian Churches allow married man to be ordained as priests and deacons; the Latin rite alone demands it also of the priests.

To follow your arguement through to its logical conclusion we should all be celibate

No, because the Epistle sets up celibacy as an ideal for those called to be "solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord" but not as a requirement for all. It is the natural reading that the priests should at least strive for celibacy, but the rest should marry, and the Church teaches precisely that.

So then priests aren't members of the church, the bride of Christ, if they are "married" to it

They are indeed distinct members of the Church, but your speculation that they are not members in any sense is nonsense that does not follow from Catholic ecclesiology.

7,584 posted on 06/01/2006 5:55:48 PM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; HarleyD; P-Marlowe; George W. Bush; fortheDeclaration

"They are indeed distinct members of the Church, but your speculation that they are not members in any sense is nonsense that does not follow from Catholic ecclesiology"

You said they were married to the church, i.e. husband to the bride of Christ. How then can they be both husband and wife? This is like that old song "I'm My own Grandpa". Paul says in 2Cor. 11:2 that the church is espoused to ONE husband, Christ.

If celibacy was a requirement as it is in some churches, it would have been explicitly set out in the (1 Timothy 3:2, 1 Timothy 3:12 and Titus 1:6)requirements, just as the husband of one wife is set out. 1 Cor.7 is Paul's observation from his experience of the vicissitudes of the ministry during his missionary journeys and just like Jack Bauer says in "24" to stay focused you have to be disinterested. But most are not called to that ministry, and both are good for God has given both.

But Paul states explicitly he has the power, the free will to marry if he chose to, 1Cor 9:5 "Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and [as] the brethren [brothers] of the Lord, and Cephas?" That should set to rest any law mandating the religious be celibate.


7,586 posted on 06/01/2006 6:40:52 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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