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To: jo kus
James 2:24

Is justified (dikaioutai). Present passive indicative of dikaiow, here not "is made righteous," but "is shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith, not the initial act of being set right with God (Paul's idea in Rom_4:1-10).



OK jokus. If you are saved, then according to your theology, you must have done a lot of good works to merit your salvation. Can you give me an example of your good works?

How can I emulate jo kus that I might be saved?

756 posted on 01/09/2006 6:31:18 AM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe; jo kus

Please see #727. You guys are using the "works" in an out-of-context way.


760 posted on 01/09/2006 6:49:31 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: P-Marlowe; jo kus
P-Marlowe, Christians are not at liberty not to do good works if they are Christians. Since it is an integral part of the faith, those who do not do good works are not believers and therefore are not saved.
761 posted on 01/09/2006 6:54:14 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: P-Marlowe
P-Marlowe, I am saved by God's Graces, not by my OWN works. I will try to explain this.

From what I can tell, Protestantism denies all secondary causes, at least in the order of grace. They deny free will or assert irresistible grace, making man purely passive and not personally responsible in the work of his sanctification. This loses sight of the ability of the creature to act and merit.

God creates us as real, substantial existences, inseparable but distinct from Himself. As Catholics, we are not pantheistic - we are not robotic extensions of God. To say we have no free will distinct from God is to fall into pantheism. As real, substantial existences who, as upheld by Him, we are capable of copying or imitating His creative acts and producing effects of our own.

God is actively present in all of His works, enabling them in order of second causes to act and sustaining them as the subject of His own acts. God works within us, giving us the power to will and to do, but the actual willing and dooing are OUR OWN, both in the order of nature and of grace.

Although we can do nothing without Christ (John 15:5), it DOES NOT FOLLOW that what we do by Him and for Him is not our doing. And although it is grace that does it, grace dwelling within us, elevating us above our natural selves, and giving us more than our natural power to do, it DOES NOT FOLLOW that grace does it WITHOUT the participation of our own activity or concurrence of our will. Grace sustains us as an actor in the order of secondary causes, enabling us to do what would infinitely exceed our powers alone. But the doing is OURS, as is the merit and the reward (or demerit and penalty).

We are able to merit only by virtue of His gratuitious gifts, but that does not deprive us of the ability to merit, because those gifts are PRECISELY what gives us the ability to love or to obey the will of God.

Thus, when I or the Scripture discusses good works as James, or Paul discusses love in Corinthians, it is understood that God is the primary cause who moves within me the ability to do what I normally cannot do. But being a distinct creation, I can bring about a secondary cause with the aid of God. Thus, I can say that I, while abiding in Christ, have done a good deed of merit. Thus, we see an act of love as a cooperation between God and ourselves.

How can I emulate jo kus that I might be saved?

There are many more people that you would be better off emulating than me. Check "Butler's Lives of the Saints". Ask them to pray for you and me that we may, indeed, become better followers of Christ.

766 posted on 01/09/2006 8:10:11 AM PST by jo kus
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