Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; Agrarian
Come to think of it, jo, your question is wrong: you are confusing nature (essence, ousia) with God's uncreated energies. In the case of our Lord Jesus Christ we have a union, without confusion, of two natures: that of Jesus (human) and Christ (divine), each possessing fully its own energies, human and divine.

As far as I can tell so far, an energy is the action of a being, correct? According to this Orthodox concept (which I admit know very little about, I am still struggling to understand it - forgive me, Westerners are slow!) Now, the Orthodox say that man cannot contact the Essence (nature) of God Himself, much like Platoism said, thus, necessitating the Logos. And thus, we have the Incarnate Logos, the Mediator between God and man. But yet, the Bible tells us that Jesus Himself comes into our hearts, along with the Spirit. Is the Essence present among us, or only a Divine Energy? Is this Energy God Himself? I am thoroughly confused on the distinction between Energy and Essence by the three of you so far!

I am sorry, forgive me, I was not raised on this point of view on God, so I am having a hard time understanding the distinction that the Orthodox make between God's Essence and God's Uncreated Energy. In the West, we see God's Energy as Created, and call it Sanctifying Grace. Both God and His Grace comes to men. How does this all work in the East.

I am just curious and trying to learn your point of view better.

The very fact that the Church established Orthodox Christology based on two natures of Christ, and two wills or energies

Is the uncreated energy the Divine Will?

Regards

7,244 posted on 05/26/2006 8:12:37 PM PDT by jo kus (Can faith [without works] SAVE him?" NO! James 2:14)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7241 | View Replies ]


To: jo kus; Kolokotronis; kosta50

"Is this Energy God Himself?"

As Kosta pointed out on a similar matter, I would submit that you are asking the wrong question.

As I pointed out above, it seems to me that you are trying to "get behind" the energies and nature of God to find the "real God" -- and then ask how to find union with that essence.

What I have tried to express (probably poorly) is that you cannot separate God's energies, will, nature, persons, and essence -- and say that this part is really God, and that part isn't.

You cannot separate the energies of God from his essence, and then say that participation in them is not a full participation in the life of God. Nor can you say that because participation in the divine energies is a "partaking of the divine nature" that therefore the energies must be God Himself.

What Kosta points out is very apt -- even in Christ, there is not a mingling or fusion of divine and human natures or energies (and I would add wills, as per the 6th Council). The 6th Council said that Christ's human will was distinct from his divine will, but that his human will was in perfect conformity with the divine will. They were shown to be distinct in the garden of Gethsemane, but they were in perfect conformity.

I'm sure that something has been written on the human and divine energies in the person of Christ, but I would imagine that it would be similar to that. Furthermore, Christ's human nature participated in the divine energies to the fullest extent that is possible -- in a sense, it is the limit to which we humans can approach, but presumably never reach.



7,254 posted on 05/27/2006 7:44:08 AM PDT by Agrarian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7244 | View Replies ]

To: jo kus; Agrarian; Kolokotronis; annalex
Is the Essence present among us, or only a Divine Energy? Is this Energy God Himself? I am thoroughly confused on the distinction between Energy and Essence by the three of you so far! I am sorry, forgive me, I was not raised on this point of view on God

Jo, there is no need to apologize. I believe that this is much simpler than you think. God created us in His image and likeness, in other words in resemblance of Him. We can potentially be like Him, but we can never be Him.

I am sure you know that. I am also sure that you know that God is a Spirit, ineffable, invisible, uncircumscribed, transcendental, and that we are nothing like that. We can become good (by cleaving to God), but God is Goodness. We may be merciful, but He is Mercy. We may be just, but His is Justice. God is the essence of everything we consider virtuous in us, because He is Virtue.

Is God present in us? He is present in everything; every thing that exists is a manifestation of God, for we exist because of Him and without Him we have no existence on our own.

So, if we can't see Him, how do we know who He is, or whether He is? The answer is through His energies. Through them, He makes Himself "detectable" by us; through them He communicates with us, through revelations and visions. Through His energies, we are moved to virtue. Through His energies we become like Him (theosis), but we never, ever, become Him.

For if we are to become Him, he would cease to be uncreated eternal God and we would cease to be created likeness of Him. Each one of us would become another Hypostasis, distinct, yet equally divine, sharing the same Essence (ousia) with the other Hypostases of which there would be as many as there are saved souls. That wold be pantheism. That wold be Hollywood!

St Basil the Great (4th century) writes: "We know our God from His energies, but we do not claim that we can draw near His essence." (Basil, Letter 234) This shows clearly that St. Gregory Palamas did not "invent" something new in Orthodox theology ten centuries (1,000 years!) later, but simply re-affirmed the patristic faith the East never altered.

7,260 posted on 05/27/2006 11:51:29 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7244 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson