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To: jo kus
By logically approaching Christianity from an unbiased position, one becomes Catholic, or one does not become Christian. There is no argument that supports Protestantism's separation from God's Church.

Really. So, I guess all of the hundreds of millions of us Protestants in the world all approach Christianity either illogically or with a bias? OTOH, all of you Catholics approach Christianity quite logically and without bias? Well, whatever office you're running for, I hope you're a Republican. :)

There are many arguments that support the Protestants' separation from the Roman Catholic Church, of course we never left God's Church. Perhaps the main one from me can be found even in your statement, your claim to ownership of God's Church. I see in Catholicism the greatest emphasis on the power, importance, and greatness of men. In each of these cases, I see God being made less in order that man can become more. My "private" interpretation of the scriptures says that just the opposite should be happening. I suspect that this idea is one of the very reasons the Reformation came about.

But obey once the Church has formulated doctrine as given it by the Holy Spirit. Part of having God as your king is to obey your king. Are you obeying God or yourself? ... But when the Church says something - we obey, as if God Himself is commanding us. We humbly submit ourselves to God's Will, even if we don't fully understand.

Well, if I use your framing, then I do not believe the RCC is God or speaks for God. Therefore, I cannot obey the RCC. I obey God and His word instead of the RCC.

7,146 posted on 05/25/2006 2:17:58 AM PDT by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper
You wrote : I do not believe the RCC is God or speaks for God. Therefore, I cannot obey the RCC. I obey God and His word MYSELF instead of the RCC.

Ah, that makes more sense...

"He who rejects you (apostles) rejects Me (Jesus) and the One who sent Me." Luke 10:16

Where we disagree, you are rejecting the Apostle's teachings found in their writings...

For example:

FK: The written Word of God provides the sole authority for Christians...

"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." 2 Thes 2:15. Nowhere does the BIBLE abrogate oral teachings.

FK: My interpretation of the Bible is my sole source of authority

"even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-16

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent?" Romans 10:14-15

Which Protestant was sent by the Apostles?

FK: I am eternally saved and of the elect and cannot fall away

"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." 2 Peter 2:20-22

FK: Man is saved by faith alone

What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith [alone] save him?" James 2:14

FK: Baptism does not remit sins.

"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38

FK The Bible is the Word of God because the Word of God is the Bible

Circular argument. Individual books of the Bible do not call themselves Scripture. Rejecting the role of the Church in forming the Canon places you in another logical conundrum.

Is there a need to continue?

You say that you use the Scripture as your source of authority, but above, it is clear that it is YOUR INTERPRETATION that you follow, not the Scriptures' clear rejection of some of your preformed ideas. Really, I don't see any point in pursuing these arguments. I have spent enough of my time already going in circles with you...

God Bless

7,160 posted on 05/25/2006 8:01:02 AM PDT by jo kus (For love is of God; and everyone that loves is born of God, and knows God. 1Jn 4:7)
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To: Forest Keeper; jo kus
"But obey once the Church has formulated doctrine as given it by the Holy Spirit."
__________________________________________

I COR. 6:19 "Do you know that your body is a temple of the HOLY SPIRIT, who is in you whom you have received from GOD?"

I won't place my FAITH in an institution. I have FAITH that the HOLY SPIRIT within me will guide me down the right path and when I wander will convict me and set me back on the right path.
7,162 posted on 05/25/2006 8:09:13 AM PDT by wmfights (Lead, Follow, or Get Out Of The WAY!)
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