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To: jo kus
Mary was a creation, Jesus was/is God. There is a huge difference right there. If God desires to share His divine nature with creation, why would it seem so strange that He would share glory with others? I see this even in magnanimous humans. Is God not better than such people?

You are trying to use logic to say something scripture doesn't teach. I find no particular merit in such speculation and restrain such thinking in myself, something I have to work at. And certainly God is better than people. But people do many things for motives that God does not possess. God is a spirit and He is holy, holy, holy. We cannot compare Him to our lowly selves in His motives and actions.

I would bet that Baptists believe that Catholics do the same thing with other doctrines!

Obviously so. The Protestants too, I'm afraid, even if some of them still find merit in baby-splashing. We Baptists will try to be more persuasive. ; )

Thus, the problem of Scripture without an external authority. You cannot know the TRUTH! That is probably what attracted me to Catholicism the most. They claim to be have the authority given to them from the Apostles.

Well, the Renaissance popes can't give you much comfort, can they? This theme of scripture being unknowable without authority and tradition surfaces repeatedly. But if that is the case, you may as well discard your bible and stop studying it. It has become superfluous to the teaching of the men of that Tradition. It might even cause confusion and dissent within your church which is why Rome forbade laymen from its study for so many centuries and murdered so many to punish them for reading scripture in the West.

It is a bold truth claim or an ignorant mistake... Obviously, I will hold the former!

Well, we'll disagree politely then. At least there, I suspect you have the upper-hand because I'm not known for my diplomacy.
7,068 posted on 05/23/2006 1:36:53 PM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: George W. Bush
You are trying to use logic to say something scripture doesn't teach.

Sure it does - it is implied, as interpreted by the Church 1900 years ago as witnessed by the writings of the earliest Christians.

But people do many things for motives that God does not possess. God is a spirit and He is holy, holy, holy. We cannot compare Him to our lowly selves in His motives and actions.

No doubt. We can only "estimate" how God is by looking at His Revelation, found in Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scriptures. But in the end, we know less about God then we care to admit.

Well, the Renaissance popes can't give you much comfort, can they?

LOL! The Bible doesn't protect the Popes from being sinless. God only protects His Church in passing down the Traditions that He gave the Apostles to pass down, in both oral and written form. Whatever the Renaissance popes did has little to do with what Jesus did in Matthew 16 or John 21, etc...

This theme of scripture being unknowable without authority and tradition surfaces repeatedly. But if that is the case, you may as well discard your bible and stop studying it.

You misunderstand the role of authority in a Catholic's eyes. First, Jesus told His Apostles the type of authoritative figures that they would be : servants. Thus, the bishop is a servant to the people on issues that seek to divide the Church. Such things as Arianism. Is Jesus God or God-like? Where men cannot agree - because it is painfully obvious that the Bible is NOT crystal clear on some issues - we are told to "take it to the Church" the same Church given the power to bind and loosen. Has the Church overstepped its authority at times? No doubt. But in the end, God has provided man an infallible and visible source of KNOWING what the Truth is - rather than through subjective, individual experiences that are rarely coordinated with the rest of the community.

We DEFINITELY read the Bible - but with the mind of the Church. Particular passages are understood a certain way. Thus, if we come across a Romans 3:28, we don't read it "we are saved by faith 'alone'"...

Regards

7,073 posted on 05/23/2006 4:44:34 PM PDT by jo kus (For love is of God; and everyone that loves is born of God, and knows God. 1Jn 4:7)
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