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To: Cronos
Hi Forest, Harley: how does the idea of an "elect" square with the idea that "heaven rejoices each time a sinner is saved"? If there is an elect then there would be no sinners -- there'd be only "the elect" and "the non-elect".

Do you not believe in an "elect"?


(Mat 24:22 KJV) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

(Mat 24:24 KJV) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

(Mat 24:31 KJV) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

(Mar 13:20 KJV) And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

(Mar 13:22 KJV) For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

(Mar 13:27 KJV) And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

(Luk 18:7 KJV) And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

(Rom 8:33 KJV) Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

(Rom 9:11 KJV) (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

(Rom 11:5 KJV) Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

(Rom 11:7 KJV) What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

(Rom 11:28 KJV) As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

(Col 3:12 KJV) Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

(1Th 1:4 KJV) Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

(1Ti 5:21 KJV) I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

(2Ti 2:10 KJV) Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

(Tit 1:1 KJV) Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

(1Pe 1:2 KJV) Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

(1Pe 2:6 KJV) Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

(1Pe 5:13 KJV) The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

(2Pe 1:10 KJV) Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

(2Jo 1:1 KJV) The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;

(2Jo 1:13 KJV) The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.

689 posted on 01/08/2006 8:21:04 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe; Cronos; annalex; Kolokotronis
Cronos, I think the "elect" term is applied here as "chosen" is used for the Jews. God chose to reveal Himself to them, for His reasons, but that did not stop them from falling away from God on different occasions. That "choice" of God's was not a automatic salvation, for sure.

The term can, of course, be (mis)construed and (mis)used, implying privilege or right over others. The God of Abraham intended the Jews to spread the knowledge of Him to all nations. Rather they decided to keep it to themselves, confusing "elect" with "favorite." To the best of my knowledge, the word "favorite" does not exist in the Bible. Today, of course, we know that all those who believe in the God of Abraham are Israel, not just the Jews.

The Jews were certainly the "chosen" people -- but chosen to spread the Gospel. It was their "chosen fate" to be the bearers of the Good News. Hence our Lord says "Salvation is from the Jews." In other words, they were chosen to do good works in faith and cooperation with God.

P-Marlowe, you Protestants use the word in a way that implies "favorite." At least that's how it appears to the Orthodox and the Roman Catholics. You never use the word "elect" in context of "elect to do God's work on earth" but rather "elect to be saved" as opposed to "discarded for damnation."

While one cannot earn his or her way into heaven, a life in Christ is exactly that: a life of humility, and mercy -- and sinlessness (as much a possible for us). I may be wrong, but most Protestants do not even profess any desire, let alone teaching, to live such a life, to emulate Christ. The Protestant concept od salvation is more akin in my perception, based on how you present it, to a divine tractor beam pulling you into heaven rather than becoming Christ-like.

690 posted on 01/08/2006 9:00:34 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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