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To: annalex; 1000 silverlings
There is this historical tidbit though: betrothal was lengthy but it often involved sharing the household with the future wife. The wedding would be a huge feast that would involve many relatives, some coming from far away, and it would consecrate the betrothal, while at the same time requiring the household economy to be already in place at least in the kitchen, if not in the bedroom. Pregnancies would on occasion result form such betrothals; they were frowned upon ... Thus even if Mary took the angel to mean "you will conceive soon", it would still be a possibility given that she shared the house with Joseph.

My understanding is also that betrothals were lengthy, but I had never heard of the sharing of a household before. Admittedly, that would help with that pesky verse 19 :) as I don't think they were married by verse 19.

In any event, I just don't see how Mary could have possibly received the news that she was going to give birth to the Savior, and it would be a result of a union outside of marriage. Since it was frowned upon, how could this be a fitting entry into the world for our Lord? Mary must have understood that.

But one thing we do know is that Mary WAS pregnant soon after the angel's visit. At the absolute maximum, it was three months later. We know by correlating the pregnancy of Elizabeth. The angel tells Mary that her cousin is six months along, and then John jumps for Jesus in the womb. That's a small window.

6,874 posted on 05/18/2006 9:44:57 PM PDT by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; 1000 silverlings; Agrarian
betrothals were lengthy, but I had never heard of the sharing of a household before

Well, I heard of it, and so did Agrarian, but neither of us can substantiate it. It is not, of course a necessary precondition for understanding of Mary's betrothal.

I just don't see how Mary could have possibly received the news that she was going to give birth to the Savior, and it would be a result of a union outside of marriage

Ultimately, this is precisely the news and we have to live with it as Christians. Perhpas you should pray to Mary more often?

We are, however, discussing not just the fact that Mary conceived not of her husband, but the dynamics of the annunciation, and how they indicate that ther marriage to Joseph was not intended to produce children.

Verse in Luke 1 Angel Mary
28-29 Royal salutation Surprised and troubled
30-34 You shall physically conceive Jesus eternal King; the father is not mentioned How shall this be done, because I know not man
At this point, the Holy Ghost being the father has not been mentioned. Mary is with the same assumption you would make, that the Son will be a legitimate son of Joseph, and not an illegitimate one. However, she responds the she knows not man, in the present tense, as if whe were a nun sworn to celibacy.
35-38 Finally, the father is foretold, and it is the Holy Ghost; the method of impregnation is a mystery of God be it done to me according to thy word
The consent is given to this miraculous and unusual arrangement, including the fact the Joseph is not the father. From Matthew 1 we know that the angel also commanded Joseph to go ahead with the marriage. Mary therefore consents to both becoming the Mother of God and Joseph's wife as betrothed, and her celibacy proclaimed in Luke 1:34 is confirmed.

7,190 posted on 05/25/2006 2:30:42 PM PDT by annalex
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