Again and again, you are begging the question. You PRESUME that God put the Bible together because the Bible is from God - according to you. You have a finished product that you claim is from God. You provide no evidence to prove that - you beg the question. Considering that Esther does not tell us it is Scripture, reading it in isolation does not tell us it is Scriputre. We rely on the decisions of the Community of Faith that Esther represents the "mind" of the Church - which is guided by the Spirit. But having the book in hand does not prove a lick. What makes Esther Scripture, while the book of Wisdom is not, according to Protestants? Or the Epistle of Barnabas? And so forth. It is a circular argument to say "the Bible is the Word of God BECAUSE the Word of God is the Bible". You won't convince any thinking person using this logic.
Then God certainly owes those gentlemen a debt of gratitude, seeing as how God could not inspire a Holy work that was self evident.
LOL! The Bible's individual books are NOT "self-evident"! That is quite ridiculous in many of the OT books! Even some of the NT books do not bear the "stamp" of a divinely written book. Philemon? Jude? 3 John? YOU could pick them out from a pile of scrolls without any knowledge of them previously, and decide they were Scriptures? Please. Give me a break. Without the community led by the Spirit, you wouldn't have a clue on what was Scriptures...
God tells us that to the non-elect, the truths of scripture are nonsense. It is apparent that many of the Jews that are related in the NT during the time of Christ did not have real faith, but also that many Jews did accept Christ.
Can you point those verses out for me? Where does the Bible say the non-elect believe the Scriptures are nonsense? It is readily apparent that Jesus of Nazareth's death did not fit the "Scriptural" view held by the Jews on who the Messiah would be. The Scriptures themselves tell us that a man hung from a tree is condemned by God. It is ONLY Apostolic Tradition that explains Deuteronomy from a different perspective. From the bible alone, Jews will not come to the faith.
And I was already concerned over your apparent worship of dead men and one particular woman. :)
LOL! Asking for someone to pray for me is worship? I guess you must worship living Christians, then!
Regards
It's nonsense to say that the church fathers picked out 66 books and said, "Well, I think that's a nice round number." The fathers had strict guidelines for determining whether a document was inspired or not. It wasn't built on some whim and approved by the group as you seem to think. The Church in its early years recognized the difference from inspired and uninspired writings. Otherwise, how did the Church tell the difference?
I think FK has more support for his views and the traditions of the Church.
I have been arguing that the Bible interprets itself, and is self-authenticating. I have said that God inspired the writers of scripture to the point of inerrancy. I have also said that in the same manner, God inspired the assemblers of the Bible to the point of inerrancy. It is fascinating that you totally buy the first part about the writers and totally reject the second. Perhaps this is because it robs men of power and glory. God, as an authenticator, just will not do in your system. Apparently, only men are wise enough to make this call. I suppose it would be more difficult to give all the credit to the men of the Church for individual writings. It seems that it is much more natural to give honor and glory to men in the case of assembling the Bible because that is a committee function.
YOU could pick them out from a pile of scrolls without any knowledge of them previously, and decide they were Scriptures? Please. Give me a break. Without the community led by the Spirit, you wouldn't have a clue on what was Scriptures...
But it appears that you deny the leadership of the Spirit. Otherwise, you would be stuck in the same circular argument that you accuse me of. If the Spirit had anything to do with authenticating the Bible then it would be God authenticating His word, an impossibility for you. For you, it seems the credit and glory must go to men.
Can you point those verses out for me? Where does the Bible say the non-elect believe the Scriptures are nonsense? It is readily apparent that Jesus of Nazareth's death did not fit the "Scriptural" view held by the Jews on who the Messiah would be.
Here are a couple of examples:
1 Cor. 2:14 : The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Cor. 1:21-25 : 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
I believe that the scriptures are ultimately from God, so they are foolishness to the unbeliever. And, Paul directly addresses your point about the Jews of the time. Those who demanded only a warrior-King were not "believers".
From the bible alone, Jews will not come to the faith.
I agree. No one comes to the faith but by God's grace.
Asking for someone to pray for me is worship? I guess you must worship living Christians, then!
My concern was that there really is more going on than simply asking someone else to pray for us. As far as I can remember, I haven't infallibly declared any of my friends to be "the Queen of Heaven" as Pope Pius XII did on Nov. 1, 1950. In Jeremiah it speaks of burning incense to a pagan goddess called the "Queen of Heaven". Something is wrong with this picture.