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To: Forest Keeper

"Well, he couldn't have been all the way over the hill, because IIRC, in the Protoevangelium it says that Joseph was accused by others of fathering the child, once Mary was discovered to have been pregnant."

Men have fathered children when they are very elderly. It just doesn't happen very often. The criticism leveled at Joseph was, as I recall, a "tut tut" for not preserving Mary's virginity as had been assumed would be the case. The idea that old men usually can do without it is still true today, as is the reality that many continue on until they are very old. There's nothing here of particular interest.

"Given this premise, I'd say it sounds logical. But what gets me is: why get married? I can't believe it would send shock waves through the community if "young virgin niece" wants to go live with and take care of "doddering old uncle". That kind of thing must have happened all the time. Joseph even complained that he would be seen as a laughing stock at taking Mary as his wife. Then, the priest immediately used extortion to get Joseph to agree. I'm still chuckling about that one. :)"

First of all, do not assume that every part of the Protoevangelion is true. It is not Scripture, nor is this tradition. In the case of traditions like this, we feel very confident in the basic account, but we don't read into small details of the tradition with the confidence that we can with Scripture. I do not know a lot about Near Eastern culture. I just understand that it was expected for women to marry, and keep in mind that one could marry a distant relative, which Joseph was. To cohabit with someone you could marry probably would have been a scandal. It also would give her certain legal protections and status under Jewish law that would be absent if she were in the odd state of "never married."

"I remember the Protoevangelium noting this too. It just struck me as odd, (and I don't question the fact of the tradition), that since virginity was held up as such a prized state, that once young girls became "eligible", they were promptly kicked out of the safest place on earth to maintain that state! :) Go figure."

You don't know your Old Testament very well if you aren't familiar with the strictness with which the Jewish tradition considered "the cycle" to be a time when a woman was ritually unclean.

BTW, this is still adhered to in many parts of the Orthodox world. Women don't enter the church during that time of the month and certainly don't commune. It is partly a residual of Hebrew tradition, and partly a kindness to the women, who usually aren't feeling all that great.





6,723 posted on 05/16/2006 6:19:07 AM PDT by Agrarian
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To: Agrarian
First of all, do not assume that every part of the Protoevangelion is true. It is not Scripture, nor is this tradition. In the case of traditions like this, we feel very confident in the basic account, but we don't read into small details of the tradition with the confidence that we can with Scripture. (emphasis added)

This is where I get confused on what "tradition" is. :) I'm not positive of the difference it makes if you capitalize "tradition"?

You don't know your Old Testament very well if you aren't familiar with the strictness with which the Jewish tradition considered "the cycle" to be a time when a woman was ritually unclean.

I knew they were considered unclean, as well as in the case of right after childbirth. I just didn't know that it was so strict that a woman can't even live in a temple if she EVER is that way. I guessed that maybe at worst, they might have to go live in a tent or something during that time. But if dem was the rules, then dem was the rules. :)

6,926 posted on 05/20/2006 2:23:16 AM PDT by Forest Keeper
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