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To: jo kus; HarleyD; Dahlseide; ItsOurTimeNow; Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; Gamecock
You didn't read all of Psalm 14, did you. Paul is not saying that ALL men are wicked. ONLY the WICKED will not turn to God. This makes sense, as a person who has been so blinded by habitual sin will not turn to God without some sort of divine intervention of grace. They will not seek out God on their own.

If your interpretation was correct (which I don't believe it is) then that would also confirm my fact that God created the righteous and wicked and there ARE slaves to sin and slaves to righteousness as described in Romans 6. There are two groups or "cities" as Augustine refers to them as. You only prove this point no matter how you interpret the passage.

This is further bore out in the following passage:

Our Lord Jesus is the Savior of all men including wicked and false teachers as Peter points out (2 Peter 2:1). Paul specifically points out that our Lord Jesus is ESPECIALLY the Savior of believers because that is precisely what He is. His blood only atones for ONLY those who God makes righteous in Christ. Christ did not died for the wicked. His blood does not atone their deed.

And here’s the kicker WE WERE ONCE LIKE THEM. Paul makes a distinction between them and us:

We dwelled among the wicked, corrupted and evil. They are the children of wrath. We are not the children of wrath. However we were JUST LIKE THE CHILDREN OF WRATH but God saved us.

Children of wrath. Children of God. Slaves to sin. Slaves to righteousness. Two sets of group as designated by God.

To the praise of His glory. Amen.

660 posted on 01/07/2006 6:17:30 PM PST by HarleyD ("Command what you will and give what you command." - Augustine's Prayer)
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To: HarleyD; jo kus; Dahlseide; ItsOurTimeNow; Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; Gamecock; P-Marlowe; ...
Addedum to my previous post:

I should've emphasized that the only reason the children of righteousness are saved (any Christian at all) is simply because of God's grace. There is no other reason. We didn't work harder. We weren't more intellectual. We didn't have greater vibes. We don't make a decision on faith. We don't cooperate.

We are saved only because God was rich in His mercy to choose to open our hearts as He did Lydia's and make us understand the gospel. We have to be born again and only God can birth us. Why He doesn't do this for everyone is unknown and, quite frankly, it's none of our business.

This is a VERY important point. There is not one scrap of anything we have that God has not given us. Let us all remember this, this Lord's day and truly give thanks that He saved us not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit.

662 posted on 01/08/2006 3:06:23 AM PST by HarleyD ("Command what you will and give what you command." - Augustine's Prayer)
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To: HarleyD
If your interpretation was correct (which I don't believe it is) then that would also confirm my fact that God created the righteous and wicked and there ARE slaves to sin and slaves to righteousness as described in Romans 6. There are two groups or "cities" as Augustine refers to them as. You only prove this point no matter how you interpret the passage.

God doesn't create "wicked" and "good" men. He creates men without sanctifying grace. This was not His initial plan for mankind (as we note in Adam's initial creation of goodness). Men CHOOSE to be wicked or good. This choice does NOT bring about sanctifying grace, necessary to enter heaven. Again, God wrote into EVERYONE'S heart the law of right from wrong. This presumes that we are able to obey it to a limited degree. When God sees that we cooperate with this sufficient grace, it become efficacious grace, and grace falls on us in greater quantity. We become more able to do God's will. Psalm 5 shows that men CAN be righteous and men CAN be wicked. The wicked are so blinded that they can no longer normally choose God. But it does not follow that all men become naturally wicked.

For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

The word "especially" does not exclude non-believers. It only means that the Savior is of greater help to believers who naturally turn their will to match God's Will.

His blood only atones for ONLY those who God makes righteous in Christ. Christ did not died for the wicked. His blood does not atone their deed.

1 John says that God died for the sin of ALL men, not just the "righteous". God atoned for all men, even those who were in sin and those who would NEVER turn to Christ. This atonement doesn't mean that a man is saved. The atonement merely means that sanctifying grace is being made available to all men. Whether we accept to receive it is another story.

However we were JUST LIKE THE CHILDREN OF WRATH but God saved us.

Peter warns us to beware, not to return to the vomit of our past life. God saved us in the past - God healed us. But it does not follow that we will REMAIN healed. When you recover from a disease, can you not get sick again? The whole concept of perseverance presumes the possibility of falling into our previous lifestyles - for which NO ONE will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Cor and Gal)

Regards

671 posted on 01/08/2006 2:17:18 PM PST by jo kus
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