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To: annalex; P-Marlowe; Dahlseide; HarleyD; ItsOurTimeNow; Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; Gamecock
The usual Protestant interpretation says that the Holy Ghost is given all Christians directly. This is without warrant. We have the Holy Ghost inasmuch as the Church of the Apostles informed us.

"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.

And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered,

Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? -- Acts 10:44-47

Looks like Peter believed in an independent, egalitarian Holy Spirit who gives Himself to whom He wills, according to His will alone. As Peter received the Holy Spirit, so, too, some Gentiles, some Jews, some Poles, some Ethiopians, some Scots, some Laplanders, some in New Jersey, some in Detroit, some who seek Him and some who are surprised by Him, like Paul. Like me.

Extract yourself from the clutter. The Holy Spirit is precise and inerrant. The Trinity is three, not four.

639 posted on 01/07/2006 9:12:35 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (an ambassador in bonds)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; annalex; P-Marlowe; Dahlseide; HarleyD; ItsOurTimeNow; Forest Keeper; Gamecock

Look, if you are going to persist in quoting scripture as an answer to these theological questions I'm going back to reading my book. Can't you quote some author or divine who has an opinion rather than the original source? One would think the scriptures were understandable to the individual with the unmediated illumination of the Holy Spirit!


640 posted on 01/07/2006 9:31:19 AM PST by blue-duncan
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; annalex; Dahlseide; HarleyD; ItsOurTimeNow; Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; Gamecock
Annalex: The usual Protestant interpretation says that the Holy Ghost is given all Christians directly. This is without warrant. We have the Holy Ghost inasmuch as the Church of the Apostles informed us.

If ever I needed a reason not to be a Catholic, this would be it. Apparently the promise of receiving the Holy Spirit does not apply to individual Catholics.

Since I have already received the gift of the Holy Sprit, that would apparently disqualify me from membership.

643 posted on 01/07/2006 9:52:21 AM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; P-Marlowe; Dahlseide; HarleyD; ItsOurTimeNow; Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; ...

The order established by St. Peter is that the Holy Ghost is received through the three sacraments of Christian initiation: Baptism, Confirmation (Chrysmation in the East), and Holy Orders.

The extraordinary outpouring of the Holy Ghost outside of these sacraments, such as sometimes described in the New Testament is not something we should rely on. Specifically, the passage you cite describes that some Christians were initiated personally by Peter, who insisted that formal baptism be performed nevertheless. Certainly we should not arrogantly assume that the gifts of the Holy Ghost are with us even when we avoid the sacraments intended to deliver these gifts, and have not been personally converted by St. Peter.

Since these gifts are the gifts always received through the Apostolic Church, it is obvious that they cease to operate if the person attempts to use them against the Church. So, some baptized Christians commit apostacy, others misinterpret Scripture, and some priests get defrocked. None of them can claim the inerrancy of the leadership of the Holy Ghost as they commit those errors.

Moreover, the gift to interpret Scripture is not conferred by baptism anyway. The function of baptism is remittance of original sin and concurrent admission into the catholic Church of Christ. The grace of strength necessary to become a soldier of Christ is conferred by Confirmation. The confirmation, not baptism, is the sacrament that in theory would allow one to interpret scripture, although, like I said before, these graces cannot be used to teach error.

The assertion that an individual is aided by the Holy Ghost as he interprets the scripture contrary to the Magisterium of the Church compounds the error of the misinterpretation itself, as it is an attempt to use the name of God in vain.


790 posted on 01/09/2006 1:05:19 PM PST by annalex
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