Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Forest Keeper; HarleyD; annalex; kosta50
"(maybe except for the booze part, bad memory, etc. :)"

It is precisely because of my own misspent youth and "bad memories (pl) that I mentioned the demon rum! :)

" The NT is replete with references to the "sinful nature". One example is:

Gal. 5:24 - "Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires."

Ah, well we certainly develop a sinful nature as we progress through life. The idea that we are born with a sinful nature is a Western one, usually attributed to Blessed Augustine. Its where the whole idea of "original sin" comes from. The Church in the East never believed that. This is not to say that, so far as I can see, a belief in Original Sin is necessarily heretical. I am aware of no Ecumenical Council (or local one for that matter) which ever anathemized those who hold that belief. There was a Western local council, the Council of Orange, which seems to have condemned the Eastern view, but as it was local it was only of local import. These local councils have said all sorts of things over the centuries. There are a number in both the East and the West which laid down some regulations we would find bizarre today, for example, did you know that you can't go to a Jewish doctor or ride in a public conveyance with a Jewish person? At any rate, the idea of being born with a sinful nature is distinctly Western. It is nothing which was ever held by the entire Church. From an Eastern point of view, however, this otherwise non-heretical view has lead to a number of problems in Western theology, for example, the usual understanding of the Latin Church dogma of the Immaculate Conception, a dogma necessitated by the underlying doctrine of Original Sin. Quick note on your scripture reference; the Greek says "the flesh", not sinful nature, is crucified.

" It (sinful nature) needs to be crucified because we were born with it. It must be eliminated before the Spirit takes its place."

This is what the East calls "dying to the self". The Church in the East, as was demonstrated I think quite forcefully by the earlier quote from +Symeon the New Theologian, believes and teaches that this dying to the self is something which takes place over time...as your own personal experience seems to indicate to you after a fashion.

Our concepts of sin are different from yours in the West. The Greek word for sin, the word the NT uses is "amartia" which means "to miss the mark". Essentially, the mark is being Christ-like; sin is when we fail at that. Words have meaning, FK, and translations make for misunderstandings.

Here's a snip from the Ascetical Homilies of +Isaac the Syrian about sin which you might find informative of the Eastern theology:

"Sin, Gehenna, and death do not exist at all with God, for they are effects, not substances. Sin is the fruit of free will. There was a time when sin did not exist, and there will be a time when it will not exist. Gehenna is the fruit of sin. At some point in time it had a beginning, but its end is not known. Death, however, is a dispensation of the wisdom of the Creator. It will rule only a short time over nature; then it will be totally abolished. Satan's name derives from voluntary turning aside from the truth; it is not an indication that he exists as such naturally."

565 posted on 01/06/2006 3:31:32 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 559 | View Replies ]


To: Kolokotronis
"... Satan's name derives from voluntary turning aside from the truth; it is not an indication that he exists as such naturally."

You know my question. :)

616 posted on 01/06/2006 10:57:23 PM PST by Forest Keeper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 565 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson