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To: Forest Keeper
What is the Catholic explanation for all the references to sinful nature, especially in Rom. 8?

Man inherits sin of Adam as original sin. It is a state of spiritual woundedness which makes us uncapable of union with God outside of the divine Grace. It is symbolized by the clothes which which Adam and Eve sought to separate themselves from God. The original sin is not actual sin, as we are born with it, do not have control over it, and will not be punished for it. Original sin though manifests itself in disordered desires, which is a state of mind called concupiscence. That is what drives us to resist divine grace and commit actual sin, for example, of greed, envy, and ultimately murder, committed by Cain. The actual sins we must confess and repent or otherwise we cannot reach God and will be condemned to eternal punishment of Hell.

Grace, however, is available to all, even the unbaptized as God loves all and wishes salvation of all. While our nature is wounded, it is not dead. God promised to withhold the punishment of death as he expelled man from the Garden, another time as he refrained from laying a curse on the whole mankind folliwing the sin of Cain, and during the entire economy of salvation set in motion following the covenant of Noah.

We choose to respond to grace with faith, hope, and charity. These virtues set us on a path of seeking God, which we do assisted, with any luck, by the Church in a lifelong process of conversion and justification. Some succeed in combating sin and reaching a state of holiness, or sainthood, in their lifetime. That is the goal and purpose of life. Others die in a state of grace before reaching holiness, and are purified from the consequences of their sin by the prayers of the Church after they die and unable to do penance themselves. Yet some die conquered by sin, rejecting the grace and have no place to go but Hell.

562 posted on 01/06/2006 2:53:57 PM PST by annalex
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To: Forest Keeper
God promised to withhold the punishment of death as he expelled man from the Garden

Huh, that is inaccurate. This phrase underwent too much editing. God promised victory over Satan as he promised that Adam's seed (alternate translation is Eve's seed) will crush Satan's head. The punishment that God consistently withholds is a curse on all mankind, which indicates woundedness but not spiritual death of utter depravity that the Calvinists postulate.

566 posted on 01/06/2006 3:47:04 PM PST by annalex
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To: annalex; Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis

Annalex, reading this I have realized that thanks to the Protestant presence here I can clearly see now more than before how close Orthodox and Latins are, and, mor eimportantly, how trivial, in comparison with their theoogy of a God who uses evil to His satisfaction, our differences seem. We are, but in comparatively minor details, one Church and that realization is in itself awesome. It birngs to mind St. Nikolai (Velimirovich), who asked God to bless his adversaries "for they have brought me closer to you!"


574 posted on 01/06/2006 5:01:21 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: annalex
Thanks for another good explanation. I have a follow-up question.

Man inherits sin of Adam as original sin. It is a state of spiritual woundedness which makes us uncapable of union with God outside of the divine Grace.

It seems to me that throughout the Bible sin is equated with death, sometimes physically, always spiritually. "For the wages of sin is death", + 100 others. Where does this "woundedness" idea come from, and why is it superior to the "sin equals death" idea found prominently in scripture?

615 posted on 01/06/2006 10:14:50 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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