[jo kus]

How can you possibly argue with 1000 silverlings that all authority rest within the Church and then turn right around and argue with me that people can be saved outside of the Church? You can't have it both ways. Either the Apostles hand down everything INSIDE the Church or they didn't. Either the Church hold the truth or it doesn't.

I have been asking Silverlings to show me where the Old Testamant gives the Apostles authority to nullify the command of Circumcision - which would eliminate Sola Scriptura. But that aside, to your question. Recall that God writes His Law on EVERYONE'S heart. He also ORDINARILY chooses to draw people to Himself from within the visible Church. However, God is not bound to the visible Church's sacramental system - as Augustine argued vs. the Donatists. (sadly, he didn't make the connection regarding the absolute necessity of infant baptism). As a result, God calls people outside of His visible Church to become part of His Church, His people. The Church preaches a Gospel of Love, His one commandment. Those who love our executing this Law of Love given by our savior, for which by no other name comes salvation.

Even men such as St. Justin the Martyr (150 AD) saw in pagan philosophers a seed planted by the Logos - His abiding in them in an incomplete way as yet, a proto-Evangelium. Mysteriously, such men who follow the inclinations of the Logos, God's Wisdom, along with God's Spirit, Love, are united with the Body of Christ.

I have noted lately that I, too, am a bit frayed lately.

Regards

[HarleyD]

I have been asking Silverlings to show me where the Old Testamant gives the Apostles authority to nullify the command of Circumcision

No one has a right to nullify anything of God-including the Apostles. That right is reserved for God alone. God showed Peter and Paul, both, that circumcision meant nothing.

Circumcision to the Jews was suppose to be nothing more than an outward sign of an inward change, like baptism is to Christians. God was furious with the Jews who went through the rituals of circumcision and yet lived their lives like everyone else. He stated:

"Behold the days are coming," declares the Lord, "that I will punish all who are cirumcised and yet uncircumcised-" Jer 9:25

God also states:

"Circumcise yourselves to the Lord and remove the foreskins of your heart, Men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, or else My wrath will go forth like fire and burn with none to quench it" Jer 4:4

Circumcision became a meaningless ritual for a pagan people who claimed to believe in God but denied His power and sovereignty. They called themselves Jews yet they sacrificed their children to Molech. (Not much difference than us "Christians" who sacrifice our children through abortion-but I digress.)

As 1000 rightly pointed out, this was part of the old covenant that God, Himself, tossed out. He is the ONLY one who can do so because He kept His end of the bargin. God brought in a NEW covenant and sealed His Spirit within us so that His people would be obedient. He told the apostles what He was doing and they relayed the message. The Bereans, who were more nobel than the Thessalonicans (Act 17) searched the scriptures (Old Testament) to see if what the Apostles were saying was correct, and they confirmed it based upon the scriptures.

The Church preaches a Gospel of Love, His one commandment.

With all due respect, this is not God's ONE commandment. You are to:

"'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind; and with all your strength. The second [commandment] is this "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." Mark 12:30-31

You are first commanded to love God. Then your neighbor. There are others.

BTW, I like the contrast of preaching the "gospel of love" that you mention and my scripture passage from Jeremiah of how God's wrath with go out on the disobedient.