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To: P-Marlowe; jo kus; kosta50; annalex; Forest Keeper

"We are transported from death to life. It is God's work and not ours."

We've already dealt with that. Your interpretation of scripture is a Protestant innovation no more than 600 years old used to justify rejection of The Church's teachings. As for it being "God's work", certianly orthodoxy has never claimed that "works" as works bring about theosis. Theosis is only by the grace of God.

"Your illustration shows satan's minions plucking people off the ladder. The Bible clearly states that nothing will pluck us from his hand. If you want a more accurate illustration, you should show the saved getting on an escalator and the damned bypassing the escalator and insisting on climbing the ladder themselves. In that case, Satan's minions will pick off every single one of them."

Again, a modern Protestant innovative reading of scripture. The icon I posted in its original form is from the 6th century as is the Ladder of Divine Ascent by +John Climacus. It demonstrates what The Church believed then and now. Your spiritual forebears chose to reject The Church. Their loss.


544 posted on 01/06/2006 10:05:19 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis
The icon I posted in its original form is from the 6th century as is the Ladder of Divine Ascent by +John Climacus. It demonstrates what The Church believed then and now.

It demonstrates what +John Climacus believed then and probably no longer believes now. I'm sure that he recongizes at this point that his own efforts contributed absolutely nothing to his salvation.

The true believer is yoked to Christ and his salvation is sure. He is not climbing a ladder to heaven that he might fall off or be plucked off. If he is yoked to Christ and he was able to be pulled off, then Christ would be pulled off with him. Is anyone (including yourself) capable of plucking you from the hand of Christ? If you think that, then you are not listening to the Shepherd. If you are his sheep you will hear his voice. His voice is clear:

Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. (John 10:25-30 KJV)

Are you listening? Do you hear?

Your spiritual forebears chose to reject The Church. Their loss.

Wrong, my spiritual forebears chose to follow Christ. The Church exists wherever two or more are gathered together in His name.

547 posted on 01/06/2006 10:30:26 AM PST by P-Marlowe
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