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To: jo kus
Vatican 2 and other post-Vatican 2 documents have defined what exactly that means - it is not what you are implying.

If you do please provide an explanation of the 12th Lateran Council, the Council of Trent and the Vatican 1 statements on those outside the Church and whether or not these have been rescinded. After all they came Ex Cathedra.

533 posted on 01/06/2006 7:36:35 AM PST by HarleyD ("Command what you will and give what you command." - Augustine's Prayer)
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To: HarleyD
If you do please provide an explanation of the 12th Lateran Council, the Council of Trent and the Vatican 1 statements on those outside the Church and whether or not these have been rescinded. After all they came Ex Cathedra.

I already have done that. The Church holds to the fact that Baptism provides entrance into the Church. Since the Church does not rebaptize heretics (as long as the baptism was properly conducted with water in the name of the Trinity), it is clear that even those heretics who are baptized are part of the Church in some mysterious way. This was never abrogated by any of the Councils you named. Thus it is clear that you are misunderstanding the political nature of the Lateran Council, the polemics of Trent, and the initial definition of Church at Vatican 1 which was clarified at Vatican 2 (recall Vatican 1 ended before expected).

Regards

535 posted on 01/06/2006 7:47:08 AM PST by jo kus
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