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To: annalex; kosta50; Forest Keeper; Cronos; Kolokotronis; HarleyD
The essence of free will is that foreknowledge does not translate into taking over the will. For example, a parent may foreknow that his adult child is making bad choices in life, yet he respects the choices for the sake of the child himself.

And just how was Judas benefited by God respecting his "choice" to betray our Lord?

When the Bible says that God hardened Pharaoh's heart, it is clear that Pharaoh's will was being driven by God's plan and purpose. Where did Pharaoh's free will come into play? If Pharaoh's will was inviolate (as some of you Catholics insist) then God would not have been able to harden his heart. Nor would he have been able to soften yours. Your free will is not sacrosanct. God can mold you anyway he wants to. He can make you into a vessel to demonstrate his mercy or he can make you into a vessel to demonstrate his wrath.

While Judas' choices may have been of his own free will, God clearly placed him in the unique position where his destiny as the Son of Perdition was sealed from the foundation of the earth. God chose Judas from the foundation of the earth for a specific purpose and his purpose was to use Judas as a vessel of wrath.

What is his purpose for us? Something to ponder.

525 posted on 01/06/2006 6:53:33 AM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe; annalex; kosta50; Forest Keeper; Cronos; Kolokotronis
Pharaoh and Judas are negative examples of God using people to accomplish His divine will. On the flip side of the coin the scriptures state that John the Baptist (Luke 1), Jeremiah (Jer 1:5), and Paul (Gal 1:15) were all set apart by God before they were even born to accomplish His divine will. Two sets of people-those who are slaves to sin and those who are slaves to righteousness (Rom 6).

God is no respector of persons and shows no partiality. God saves each of us exactly like John the Baptist, Jeremiah and Paul. While we may not have been blinded going to Damascus, God has set us apart from the foundations of the world. He opens every Christian's heart up and calls us for His purpose. That purpose may be great or small but that is for God to decide.

Why he chose not to open Pharaoh's or Judas' heart is a mystery. He has His reasons I'm sure. But He uses everyone to accomplish His divine will.

Nebuchadnezzar was set apart by God to destroy Judah. Before Nebuchadnezzar was saved by God (Daniel 4), God called him His "servant" (Jer 43:10) - a distinction reserved for believers.

532 posted on 01/06/2006 7:29:04 AM PST by HarleyD ("Command what you will and give what you command." - Augustine's Prayer)
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To: P-Marlowe
I don't know if your 525 is intended as an argument against my 501, since you don't directly address 501.

how was Judas benefited by God respecting his "choice" to betray our Lord?

Judas's sin was redeemed, just like anyone else's.

God hardened Pharaoh's heart

The issue is, is God intending evil or not? In the same book, God talks to Moses, tell him what to do and makes promises. It is clear fromt he scripture that Moses's will is aligned with God's and Pharaoh's is not.

use Judas as a vessel of wrath

What wrath? God was wrathful at Himself Incarnate?

548 posted on 01/06/2006 11:17:13 AM PST by annalex
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