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To: qua; Agrarian; Dr. Eckleburg
f that were true there would not be a disagreement over the worship of icons in the Mystic Church or the worship of idols in the Papist Church

There is no disagreement in worshiping icons in both Churches, or "idols" in the west. We do not worship "idols" whether they are icons or statues. We believe that saints are alive and we ask them to pray for us. That is not "worship" or idolatry. They are representations of real people. Images or real people are allowed.

When we pray we do not pray to the material that makes up a picture or a statue (paint, wood, stone), but to the person those images represent. If we smile in front of an icon, it's no different than when you look at a picture of you child or grandchild and smile. You do not for a moment believe that the pictures is your child or that the paper the picture is printed on is your child in person. The picture simply reminds you and mentally transports you to the person you are smiling at.

5,238 posted on 04/28/2006 6:43:17 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; qua; Forest Keeper; HarleyD; blue-duncan; AlbionGirl
When we pray we do not pray to the material that makes up a picture or a statue (paint, wood, stone), but to the person those images represent.

How much clearer does Scripture have to be to tell you that is one drastic mistake?

"Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake.

Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?

But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:

They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:

They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.

They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

O Israel, trust thou in the LORD: he is their help and their shield...The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." -- Psalms 115:1-9;17

"And there they burnt incense in all the high places, as did the heathen whom the LORD carried away before them; and wrought wicked things to provoke the LORD to anger: For they served idols, whereof the LORD had said unto them, Ye shall not do this thing." -- 2 Kings 17:11-12

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God." -- 1 Peter 1:18-21

"Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods." -- Psalms 97:7

"And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god.

They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand." -- Isaiah 44:17-18


5,243 posted on 04/28/2006 7:19:12 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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