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To: qua; Agrarian
I replied initially to the consensus patrum which I assumed equaled Holy Tradition and Holy Tradition is derived of divine revelation in the same manner as Scripture

The Bible is part of the Holy Tradition. Within that Holy Tradition is the Divine Liturgy, the Gospels, the New Testament, the Old Testament, the Ecumenical Councils, the icons. It is one "body" and none of its components, mentioned above, contradict each other.

Agrarian not so long ago mentioned that one can learn the entire Bible (both Testaments) better through Divine Liturgy than just by reading the Holy Book. That much is obvious to anyone who follows liturgical life of the Church.

These were not human inventions. Everything in the Church can be traced to revealed truth. There are no "decorations" in the Church. That being said, Thomas Aquinas's brilliant work Summa theologica, or the collection of books known as Philokalia are not part of the canon because they were never inspired knowledge, nor did anyone claim them to be. They simply reflect the revealed truth known to the Church.

The faith was revealed once and forever. We cannot add to it, and we cannot take away from it. We do not "discover" more about God other than what God has revealed and know as much as He wanted us to know. Everything else is a way of explaining what was revealed in terms that can be understood by various people.

That which was revealed to the Apostles and is now contained in the Church is immutable, for what was true 2,000 years ago is true today.

The Church was built around that Holy Tradition. The New Testament is not a separate product of that truth, but a written testament of what was given to the Apostles by word of mouth. The Divine Liturgy is not something someone designed because he was "talented" but it contains the same truth given to the Apostles by word of mouth.

The Ecumenical Councils did not add or invent new meanings and new revelations, but simply stated what the Church believed from the beginning. If there were no heresies, the Church would have never had a need to define our terms of faith.

If there were no Gnostic forgeries of various "gospels" the Church would have never found it necessary to compile the New Testament.

Concensus patrium is a necessity because no individual father is without fault, no human being can claim inerrancy unless he or she is expressing the revealed truth of the Holy Tradition, not as a private opinion (theologounema), but as an established truth within the Holy Tradition. The issue of papal infallibility is one of the few topics that divide the (Roman) Catholics from the Orthodox (Catholics). I am sure we can reconcile that, but it will take an Ecumenical Council to do so.

5,224 posted on 04/28/2006 4:59:53 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
Excellent reply regarding the meaning of Sacred Tradition. I particularly enjoyed:

"If there were no Gnostic forgeries of various "gospels" the Church would have never found it necessary to compile the New Testament."

and

"The Church was built around that Holy Tradition. The New Testament is not a separate product of that truth, but a written testament of what was given to the Apostles by word of mouth. The Divine Liturgy is not something someone designed because he was "talented" but it contains the same truth given to the Apostles by word of mouth."

You should save this post for later use, when the subject is addressed at post #6000 or so.

Brother in Christ

5,227 posted on 04/28/2006 5:10:32 AM PDT by jo kus (I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart...Psalm 119:32)
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