jokus-UNLESS God also has another will that logically would make BOTH "desires" impossible to fulfill completely! "Can God make a rock that He cannot pick up"? Can God save all men if all men are to have free will?
"What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction." Rom 9:22
Not only are there the elect which God has foreknown before the foundation of the world but God purposely passes over others. While I know you don't believe in double predestination, the scriptures plainly state there are those who God has purposely created for destruction.
I don't really want to get into the fine points of this. It should be recognize that even Calvinists debate the order of salvation. However, simply because God knew that some of His creation would not come to Him and that He created hell for their destruction, logically implies that He knew and destined their fate.
jokus-"Tsk, tsk. You make God the Father out to be a blood-thirsty tyrant"
jokus-"I was quoting Harley at the time. I'd have to search to find that exact post."
Unregenerated man is in bondage. He can do nothing that is pleasing to God simply because anything pleasing to God must be done by faith. Unregenerated man does not have faith. That doesn't mean that unregenerated man can't do some morally "good" things. It simple means that unregenerate man cannot do anything pleasing to God. God must give unregenerate man faith.
God regenerate man by giving him faith. Regenerated man can/cannot do things that are pleasing to God. Because man is regenerated there will be some things that man will do that will please God. There will be other things that regenerate man will do that is sinful. For these things God will chastise regenerate man for his own benefit to bring man around.
You would like to say that God gives man faith so that he can make a choice but this is nonsense. If man had faith then man would be regenerated now wouldn't he? By definition of "faith", he would do at least one pleasing thing to God-to believe on the one whom He sent.
I don't see an error here. The Scriptures plainly state that God desires the salvation of ALL men. It states this in several Scriptures. Rather than twisting Scriptures to fit your paradigm, perhaps you should build your paradigm based on what is there. God did create men, but He didn't make them wicked. This makes God the author of evil, which you refuse to tie to your theology. If God created men SPECIFICALLY to be wicked, then you CANNOT say that God did not author sin. This is an utterly ridiculous claim. Christianity has NEVER said that God created evil, at least before the Reformation.
God wills all men to be saved.
God looks to see who will refuse His grace and persistently refuse to turn to Him.
All others who do not positively refuse God are considered predestined positively, not because of merit, but because God wants all men saved, and God's graces were not continuously rejected.
"The wages [what one earns] of sin is death, but the free gift [unearned] of God is everlasting life" Romans 6:23
The human analogy: The parents desire the best for their children. No child feels they have to do things to earn their parents love. Even if they don't cut the grass, they will still be loved. The parents love the kids because THEY are good, not the child. However, the children know if they are bad, they can earn punishment. Continuously bad behavior, done long enough, can result in a disinheritance of the child. Sadly, the parent lets the kid do his own thing.
God does something similarly with us. God loves us, even without considering whether we will respond to His love. God has proven His love, even when in sin. His love is boundless, overcoming even such an obstacle as the death of His only Son to prove to us His love. We do not earn His love by deeds. However, as the Scriptures note time and time again, we CAN be disinherited from this love by turning from God and refusing to return to Him.
While I know you don't believe in double predestination, the scriptures plainly state there are those who God has purposely created for destruction.
You are reading into Scriputre what is not there. God created vessels for the express purpose of destroying them? Hardly. God saw that some of His creation would be destroyed due to their own rejection of God.
However, simply because God knew that some of His creation would not come to Him and that He created hell for their destruction, logically implies that He knew and destined their fate.
I disagree. God's foreknowledge does not imply that He decreed said person would be destroyed. He merely foresees that the man will reject Him, not that HE actively caused it. Or are you saying that God is the author of sin?
True. That is why you won't find the term "free will" in scripture in regards to man's salvation.
LOL! Do a word-search on "perseverance" or its derivatives....
I seem to remember a verse, "Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins..."
God is absolutely requiring that blood be shed???
If man had faith then man would be regenerated now wouldn't he? By definition of "faith", he would do at least one pleasing thing to God-to believe on the one whom He sent.
There are different definitions of faith. John talks about "insufficient" faith vs. faith in Christ as the messenger of the Father. Paul talks about faith as being worthless without love. And we all know about James. It depends on how you define "faith".
Regards