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Are you among God's elect, D-fendr? Did Christ pay the penalty in full for all your sins? Have you been redeemed?

As someone wise told me recently, "no one but God knows the names of the elect."

I, too, am among the elect.

This seems to contradict my wise advisor.

He will never lose hold of me, and that He will inevitably lead me home because Christ has already paid the price for my sins in total. I have been redeemed.

You seem to have God in a box in your pocket. You're in and there's nothing He can do about it - or nothing He will do about it, which is essentially the same thing.

This thinking also gets too quickly into "My theology gives me assurance of Heaven, does yours?" We see the evangelist's appeal, "do you know you're going to heaven?" and if not, well here's how you can.

Speaking only for myself, I think it is harmful to think in terms of my "reward." Would we follow Christ if we were not rewarded for it?

Perhaps this thinking is good for others, but I can't understand it. Which is why I asked you. I've never run across someone talking about assured salvation who didn't think their's was assured. So, it becomes meaningless to me.

thanks for your reply.

"As someone wise told me recently, "no one but God knows the names of the elect."

You might not know with confidence if anyone else is elect but you can know with surety if you are.

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1Jo 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Paul says as far as our security that nothing and no one can separate us from God,

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God [be] for us, who [can be] against us?

Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth.

Rom 8:34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I, too, am among the elect, by His grace.

I think it is harmful to think in terms of my "reward."

Harmful? What a peculiar remark.

"After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward." -- Genesis 15:1
"So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous: verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth." -- Psalms 58:11
"The wicked worketh a deceitful work: but to him that soweth righteousness shall be a sure reward." -- Proverbs 11:18
"My son, eat thou honey, because it is good; and the honeycomb, which is sweet to thy taste: So shall the knowledge of wisdom be unto thy soul: when thou hast found it, then there shall be a reward, and thy expectation shall not be cut off." -- Proverbs 24:13-14
"Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken." -- Isaiah 62:11-12
"Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets." -- Luke 6:23

And why are we SURE of our reward? Because it is earned through NOTHING in ourselves.

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." -- Romans 4:4-5

We are saved, rewarded, redeemed by HIS righteousness alone, ordained by God from before the foundation of the world in order to bring glory to God's name.

"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." -- Hebrews 10:38-39

"...and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken..."

Would we follow Christ if we were not rewarded for it?

Excellent question! I have raised a similar one -- how many people would be in church on Sundays if it was only for the glory of God, and no reward for us?

We have too many lip-Christians, who pounce their chests and are assured of their "sainthood," and knowledge, yet I doubt that they love their neighbor as much as themselves. I know I don't. I am not there yet, if ever.

How many firm believers say they believe because they expect a reward? How many belong to what's-in-it-for-me-religion?

Good post, D-fendr