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To: kosta50; HarleyD
What you are really questioning is whether perfect also means sinless, knowing that Job confessed that he is not without sin. Yet Septuagint (LXX), the Greek-language OT predating Christ says that Job was "true, blameless, righteous, and godly, abstaining from everything evil."

Yes, I must question it because I believe every word in the Bible is true. When there are apparent contradictions there must be an explanation. The alternative is that the Bible isn't true. Whether the word is "blameless", "righteous", "godly", or "perfect", it cannot mean "sinless" in this context. Harley's explanation makes "perfect" sense to me. :) God sees some of us as blameless or righteous, but that doesn't mean we do not sin. The beauty of it is that this idea is backed up by scripture.

In all this, the focus becomes on the verse, word by word, and not the spiritual message behind the story -- which is: never blame God for your misfortunes.

I don't see why there cannot be focus on both. Yes, the message is very important AND so are the words. I'm a living example because my chosen text is the NIV, which goes idea for idea rather than word for word.

However, not only does the OT mention the righteous, but so does our Lord Jesus Christ, so whence came those, if according to +Paul, none is righteous?

Yes, this fits in with what Harley was saying. Many are called righteous in the Bible. Some examples are Noah, Joseph, Simeon, Abel, Zechariah, Lot, Abraham, Paul, Silas and Timothy. So, who is Paul talking about in Rom. 3:10? Well, he obviously can't be talking about any of the people listed, or anyone else who is righteous in God's eyes. But Paul does say "none", implying that all are unrighteous. Is that ever true? Yes, that is true of everyone before salvation. This idea also matches what Paul says 13 verses later, that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". If that statement was meant to convey a permanent condition, then no one goes to heaven. He was again speaking of everyone before salvation. Not that we don't sin after salvation, but that a truly regenerated heart no longer falls short.

Rom. 3:21-24 : 21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. (emphasis added)

4,923 posted on 04/21/2006 4:02:35 PM PDT by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; HarleyD
Whether the word is "blameless", "righteous", "godly", or "perfect", it cannot mean "sinless" in this context

In this context? The context, FK, which you left out, is in the last sentence that says abstaining from everything evil. In that context, Job is described as sinneless.

4,995 posted on 04/22/2006 11:58:42 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50
God sees some of us as blameless or righteous, but that doesn't mean we do not sin. The beauty of it is that this idea is backed up by scripture.

I was going through Job this morning and this seems to be confirmed within scripture. Please note what Job states:

Job 14:16-17 "For now You number my steps, You do not observe my sin. My transgression is sealed up in a bag, And You wrap up my iniquity."

God doesn't observe Job's sin. This implies that 1) Job recognized he was a sinner and 2) God didn't care. It is God who "wrap up" Job's iniquity. This is precisely the principle of imputed righteousness.

5,022 posted on 04/23/2006 1:58:15 AM PDT by HarleyD ("...even the one whom He will choose, He will bring near Himself." Num 16:5)
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