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To: kosta50; Agrarian; HarleyD; jo kus; Cronos; Kolokotronis; qua
FK: "So when your leaders declare Biblical spiritual truths, they are not from God? Very interesting."

My leaders? Please, take me to my leaders, FK. Biblical spiritual truths come from the Faith alone, and the Faith comes from God.

I have been told a hundred times that for you Biblical spiritual truths do not come from faith alone, instead they come from the Church, or faith in the Church, i.e. your leaders. I have been told, in effect, that you would be lost without the Church to give you spiritual truths. How can this be "Faith alone" from God? Anticipating your response, do you have the same faith in the Church that you have in God?

You Protestants have substituted the Church (from which you were thrown out by your own heresy) with a Bible -- which exists in the form you use because of the very Church you deny.

Yes, "us" Protestants do put the Bible over fallible men. Horrors! :) You can give the Church credit for the Bible all you want, I give the credit to God.

But there is one thing no one can argue with when it comes to the New Testament: it's spiritual message, apart from all the events, facts and parables. Whether you believe or do not believe, the spiritual message is loud and clear -- ...

I agree that the spiritual message is loud and clear. I just think that the power of the message loses something important if it is divorced from the truth of the vehicle. That is, unless it is clear from the context that the vehicle is intentionally metaphorical, such as with parables. How can the hearer fully appreciate the message if he constantly has to decide which parts are fact and which parts are fiction?

For example, what does the rainbow mean to you? We all know that God made a covenant with Noah, but is the rainbow His seal? If not, then does God seal any of His covenants, or is that important? If God doesn't use seals, then were there literally two stone tablets or not? If not, then what was carried in the Ark of the Covenant, or did it even exist? You get my drift, what is a poor Christian to do if he has no idea what to believe in?

4,451 posted on 04/07/2006 3:17:33 PM PDT by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper
I have been told a hundred times that for you Biblical spiritual truths do not come from faith alone, instead they come from the Church, or faith in the Church, i.e. your leaders

The Church reflects spiritual truths of God's revelation (through the Holy Tradition), and safeguards them as they were at the time the Church was formed.

The Bible is meaningless without the faith. To a Jew, the New Testament is not a Scripture. In order for me to witness the truth of Christ, I have to believe in Him. He is the source of Christian faith.

4,453 posted on 04/07/2006 5:30:31 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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