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To: jo kus
With all the mention of perseverance, holding out to the end, ethical exhortations, carrying one's cross, and following the narrow path, do you sense that the Scripture teaches we are saved irrefutably by one event in the past?

OK, I see you have a point there. I will change to say that "perseverance, holding out to the end, ethical exhortations, carrying one's cross, and following the narrow path" are necessarily exhibited by a truly saved person. Scripture supports that. I would only add that these are not possible by the choice of man, but rather these will happen by the power of God. God will not allow the truly saved to ever be lost.

Salvation doesn't depend on "confidence", but on love. ... Focus on love, brother, and you will have fulfilled the commandment of Christ.

I agree that salvation doesn't depend on confidence, I would say it depends on God's love and plan for us. I do focus on God's love for me, and I love Him back through the ability to do so, which He gave me.

444 posted on 01/05/2006 2:53:32 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper
I will change to say that "perseverance, holding out to the end, ethical exhortations, carrying one's cross, and following the narrow path" are necessarily exhibited by a truly saved person. Scripture supports that.

That is true, from God's point of view. I do not necessarily agree that WE know if we are saved (defined as "achieve eternal happiness") without ANY doubt. WE don't know if our names have been blotted out of the book of Life (or will be). But we can have a pretty good idea where we stand if we examine ourselves and see whether we are obeying the Commandments. 1 John is a very good epistle that covers how we can know we are saved - because (as you mention) we can only do good IF we abide in Christ. Thus, if we have good inner dispositions, loving others for the sake of loving them (not to earn something), we can rest assured that Christ is somehow abiding in us to a degree (since we cannot do that ourselves).

God will not allow the truly saved to ever be lost.

Yes, but am I of you or the "truly saved"? Paul in 1 Cor 6 tells us that certain Christians will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Although by habit, we can rest assured that we are likely in Christ as we grow in virtue, that we can have "moral" assurance of salvation, even Paul continued to run the race LEST HE BE DISQUALIFIED. As you know, you get NOTHING for being disqualified from the prize of eternal life...

I do focus on God's love for me, and I love Him back through the ability to do so, which He gave me.

Very good. Again, 1 John tells us to love in deed, not in words. Deeds of love are demanded of us - not to earn anything, of course, but because it shows our response to Christ and His work within us. "Of the greatest of these is love" says Paul.

Regards

450 posted on 01/05/2006 5:26:59 PM PST by jo kus
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